Godammed SDN

[adr-admin]

lol i think zinegata is a neo-nazi and a holocaust denier

this poor bastard truly is totally insane

[Flagg]

Been saying it for months. Guy is a fruitcake.

[Shroom Man 777]

what? he just said that there were people who survived the horrors of the holocaust

how can he be a holocaust denier then? or a neo-nazi?



i think you guise need to just let go of the whole bs issue, who gives a shit about debating with those people anyway, and anyway your mindset and perspective end up getting adversely affected by it when you get too "into it" and get fixated on trying to one-up the other guise in some ultimately pointless exchange of pretentious crap that seems oh-so-important to you guise but is actually some whale beached on the shores of don'tgiveafuck harbor

you end up getting too deep into this srs bsnss internet debate bs and, well, end up becoming no different from all the other blowhard ooooh intellectulo crucibloid flamenwarriorern gehwer kampfers

no john you are the fatties

and then



srsly you can't tell me that deep down in your reptile brains you guise aren't also getting the same highs from "scoring points" against the other guise who you are so epically valiant struggle conflict clash battle duel monstering card captor yogi-oh bearing with

you'll just end up mutating into morbidly obese slugmen grotesquetitudes and it'll all be bargon wanchi cox pa from there on

[Darksi4190]

*reads above post*
You know, someone really needs to make an english to shroomese translation program so I can figure out what the fuck he's saying.

[xon]

It always blew my mind that TADR was a fan creation.

A few UI enhancements and I'd probably start playing TA again.

Well, that and the naval pathfinding not shitting its pants.

Someone found the magic pathfinding limiter, changing it from ~1500 nodes to 64000 nodes to search actually makes naval pathfinding work quite well.

Did TA spring ever get to a non fucked point in development

Cause awful UI aside it was better than TA already years ago

No idea, never really got into TA Spring. While the engine was technically better, the gameplay was rather lacking given how unstable the engine & feature set was when I looked at it the first time.

[starku]

They sure had 'the way our clan plays must be right' disease

[Dooey Jo]

for me the best part of the pacifism debate is that those advocating violence are discouraging those who were in the best position to stop hitler before he did anything

the german populace

they seem to be arguing from the standpoint that rulers rule by divine right, and not by the consent of the masses

well as far as i know hitler didn't kill a single person by himself

apart from the obvious

even if britain and whoever flexed their penises and stopped hitler from getting into wherever, he'd still kill all german undesirables, but of course that's fine

killing is only bad enough to fight it with more killing when someone is killing the guys next door instead of his own family right

or maybe rulers aren't concerned so much with the lives of people in other nations as they are with the integrity of the borders of those nations

but hey, just war and everything. if only we didn't perpetuate a culture that said lots of people coming together to say "no" to someone they supposedly elected half a decade ago was pointless

don't think for yourselves, follow the authorities

[thejester]

what's funniest about the pacifism debate is how little you and adr appear to know about the holocaust

[Akhlut]

the german populace

they seem to be arguing from the standpoint that rulers rule by divine right, and not by the consent of the masses

You mean the one that overwhelmingly voted for Herr Hitler and overall knew enough about things like Aktion T4 and the Nuremburg Racial Laws and still didn't do shit? I'm arguing for the most realistic solution available: the UK and France use military threats against Hitler after the Anschluss.

even if britain and whoever flexed their penises and stopped hitler from getting into wherever, he'd still kill all german undesirables, but of course that's fine

killing is only bad enough to fight it with more killing when someone is killing the guys next door instead of his own family right

You stop Hitler after the Anschluss and eliminate their aura of greatness and all of a sudden the Nazis stop looking like Germany's saviors and more like just another bunch of pompous jackasses. The relatively large portions of the army that were originally on the fence do not come around to Hitler and they start to rein the Nazis in instead of helping them out and starting to swallow the Flavor-Aid.

but hey, just war and everything. if only we didn't perpetuate a culture that said lots of people coming together to say "no" to someone they supposedly elected half a decade ago was pointless

It's not, but there's a bit of a difference between doing that with, say, the Dixiecrats during the 1960s and Hitler in the 1930s, given relative national proportions of people who disagree with those assholes. Yes, if a third or a half or whatever arbitrary but large percentage of German citizens went with civil disobedience and all of that sort of thing, then, yes the Nazi war machine wouldn't have worked. But Germany was overwhelmingly pro-Hitler by the 1930s. I'm arguing for the best chance of accomplishing something in the real world: post-Anschluss ass-kicking.

[Akhlut]

*reads above post*
You know, someone really needs to make an english to shroomese translation program so I can figure out what the fuck he's saying.

If you keep arguing on TEO, despite bitching about it, then you like the arguing as much as the fatties on TEO.

[adr-admin]

how can he be a holocaust denier then? or a neo-nazi?

i be trollin him in this thread since he's reading and thinking it is a great thing to quote

what is said here never matters

ever

bringing it up is ad hominem and appeal to motive and other fallacious crap

every time

the argument can be attacked on its own

you end up getting too deep into this srs bsnss internet debate bs and, well, end up becoming no different from all the other blowhard ooooh intellectulo crucibloid flamenwarriorern gehwer kampfers

the responses in that thread are kinda useless and they aint gonna change

but the process i'm going through thinking about the issue is something i like for myself

[adr-admin]

what's funniest about the pacifism debate is how little you and adr appear to know about the holocaust

i'd say the same about everyone who thinks the war did anything to help

[Shroom Man 777]

what passive non-violent measures could we have done to prevent the japanoids kempeitaing our ass and raping our women?

[Shroom Man 777]

you're going into the other end of the spectrum

yes violence is bad and imperialisms is poo

i live in a disfigured country that's the ultimate and perfect result of violence and imperialism - a country with a conquered culture, where no sign of the native ways are left cause all we have and all we are now is what the imperialists made us to be, and we love them for it and we lick their orifices for it, sipping the sweet nectar from their sphincters.

we are america's greatest victory

but jesus christ its also so easy to argue what you're arguing when you're fat and living in an invincible nation surrounded by oceans and aren't a puny island shithole that can be raped by the whims of any imperialist out there who won't give a fuck about any peaceful non-violent means we'd enact to try and stop them from raping our women and slitting the wombs of mothers open and bayoneting the babies

when the americans came to my country fresh from the high of freedomizing the native indians and all that truth justice american way bullshit, the muslims down south wrapped rubber bands around their body to stave off bloodloss from gunshots and went and stabbed the americans in the face with machetes and the americans had to invent the colt m1911 cause the muslims were so damn hard to kill

i do not begrudge them this, nor the other countrymen from other parts of the country who similarly took up arms and knives and took them down the americans' faces

yes, we lost, yes we are now kowtowing shitpieces licking the excrements oozing from the americans' alley

but back in those days, those men screaming for independence and sticking their rusty machetes up the faces of all those uncle sams, g.i. joes and all those diegos before that

those were better men than we

[Shroom Man 777]

how can he be a holocaust denier then? or a neo-nazi?

i be trollin him in this thread since he's reading and thinking it is a great thing to quote

what is said here never matters

ever

bringing it up is ad hominem and appeal to motive and other fallacious crap

every time

the argument can be attacked on its own

ok

in that case

hey zinegata manila is a shithole

and tagalog sounds girly

you telenovela drama queen

[Dooey Jo]

but hey, just war and everything. if only we didn't perpetuate a culture that said lots of people coming together to say "no" to someone they supposedly elected half a decade ago was pointless

It's not, but there's a bit of a difference between doing that with, say, the Dixiecrats during the 1960s and Hitler in the 1930s, given relative national proportions of people who disagree with those assholes. Yes, if a third or a half or whatever arbitrary but large percentage of German citizens went with civil disobedience and all of that sort of thing, then, yes the Nazi war machine wouldn't have worked. But Germany was overwhelmingly pro-Hitler by the 1930s. I'm arguing for the best chance of accomplishing something in the real world: post-Anschluss ass-kicking.

however we are already not in the real world here; we are discussing alternate courses of action, and as such violence or non-violence from the allies are not the only things we can contemplate. we can speculate all day what different military campaigns would have yielded, but i don't think you disagree that the germans standing up to hitler when he's telling them to do evil is preferable to any military action? because my position is that it would have been preferable, not that it's a likely scenario. further, my position is also that informing everyone that they, and their refusal to go along with any old shit from figures of authority, is the best way to stop similar things from happening in the future; not having big "liberal" watch-dog countries

ps this is why germans don't like hitler jokes. they know they did wrong and it's pretty important to remember. when someone says "well huge armies are the only thing that could have stopped hitler", not only is that false, but also (and here's my point i was making) it keeps people believing stopping similar events in the future also ought to be delegated to professionals. but only you can prevent forest fires (others can only put them out you see)

what's funniest about the pacifism debate is how little you and adr appear to know about the holocaust

the best part about any internet debate is the people swooping past going "you are wrong about something but i'm not gonna say how or even what though i assure you it's important to your central thesis". they really bring a lot of interesting viewpoints to the discussion.

no wait, what they are actually trying to do is silence the discussion through shaming. there's a whole forum dedicated to that style of debate, i hear

[Zod]

isn't the only reason that england got involved because hitler invaded one of their allies and they were pretty much obligated to respond? i don't think stopping genocide was a huge driving factor

[Losonti Tokash]

i am not seeing a connection between "people shouldn't go along with genocide" and "violent resistance against invasion and murder is immoral"

I'm with shroom, it's way easier to say this shit when your people have never been the victim of it

hell my ancestors sued the us government to keep their land and won the case but it just got ignored, we we were all thrown out anyway because jackson didn't give a shit what the supreme court thought, and a third of the cherokee who were "relocated" died along the way

the people who fought back sure didn't do well but judging by the outcome of non violent resistance and the good word of the us government i wouldn't say they did the wrong thing either

[Losonti Tokash]

isn't the only reason that england got involved because hitler invaded one of their allies and they were pretty much obligated to respond? i don't think stopping genocide was a huge driving factor

do you think people can do the right thing for the wrong reasons and vice versa

[Aaron]

Nobody cared about Jews back then, ok guys. Helping them was a natural result of invading but it wasn't the purpose, but sometimes good things happen by accident.

[adr-admin]

you're going into the other end of the spectrum

violence didn't succeed until people stood together, filipinos and americans

you have to remember that nonviolence doesn't mean "do nothing" nor is it "passive" at all

we still stand together and still take action

just a different kind that leaves fewer hard feelings and isn't inherently evil


that's really the mechanism behind the wars anyway. while they do sometimes make the fight physically impossible they more often than not end in some kind of agreement; the people could keep fighting, but they don't want to anymore so it stops

violence is a tool to primarily change the (surviving) enemy's minds


(methinks the key to war is not military knowledge but psychology.)



now you'll need power either way. you can't defeat an enemy with violence if you are weak, and a nonviolent minority will be ignored or crushed all the same

but power comes from unity

we have to choose to stand with the suffering and help them. we have to convince others to join us.

evil must be opposed

[Aaron]

I gotta say adam, I'm getting pretty offended with your extreme pacifist thing. Ironically I kinda want to smack you upside the head.

[Aaron]

Lol, how long have I had that title?

[Darksi4190]

I Just noticed it now, so it must be pretty recent.

Have you done something particularly "fatty" of late?

[adr-admin]

I gotta say adam, I'm getting pretty offended with your extreme pacifist thing.

imo the saddest thing is that believing that "thou shalt not kill" is a good way to live your life is considered an extreme position that offends people