Godammed SDN

[Darksi4190]

What about people who just can't be rehabilitated, I.E. the Charles mansons of the world?

[adr-admin]

correct me if i'm wrong but charles manson is still alive in a california prison

[Akhlut]

I didn't start a program to literally exterminate a race of people from the earth.

i'm also against capital punishment and abusive prisons and so on and so on regardless of what crimes the person did whether it is petty theft or mass murder

i'd prefer a justice system based on rehabilitation than retribution

for ALL

not just people i like

not just people accused of minor crimes

ALL

That's the ideal.

But there are people who do not want to or cannot change. What of the unrepentant murderer who will not stop killing people?

Also: what of the Greeks who were slaughtered and starved for their nonviolence?

[Darksi4190]

I'm just using him as an example of someone who's irredeemable. The question stands. You said you favor a justice system that focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment? What do you do with people who can't be rehabilitated to function in normal society? and how do you convince the families of murder victims to accept that you're letting the person who killed their loved ones out of jail because they've been "rehabilitated?"

I'm honestly curious. You spout a lot of theory, but you don't seem to have a lot of practical planning to get it done.

[starku]

Dudes he is like the four year old who loves the reaction when she screams I LOVE SATAN HEHEHE

Millions of people for thousands of years have believed in universal truths

Too bad the real world exists wih problems to solve rather than axioms to smugly repeat

[adr-admin]

real world problems aren't solved by USE MOAR VIOLENCE RAR

[Aaron]

Dudes he is like the four year old who loves the reaction when she screams I LOVE SATAN HEHEHE

Millions of people for thousands of years have believed in universal truths

Too bad the real world exists wih problems to solve rather than axioms to smugly repeat

It's like the Tugg Speedman school of philosophy.

[uraniun235]

real world problems aren't solved by USE MOAR VIOLENCE RAR

Yeah but you're not really attempting to address real world problems in your posts anyway so what does it matter

[Aaron]

real world problems aren't solved by USE MOAR VIOLENCE RAR

And we aren't saying they are. But your not listening, now are you?

What should people do if non-violence doesn't work? Non-violently resist harder?

What do we do with the Mansons?

Not only have you been a totally smug bastard about all this but you've not even thought your own positions through!

[Akhlut]

real world problems aren't solved by USE MOAR VIOLENCE RAR

Greece used a lot of nonviolence and was devastated for it. Explain, please, how a group using nonviolence was nearly destroyed, despite your evidence that Hitler's allies and non-allied fellow Aryans weren't harmed.

[Darksi4190]

real world problems aren't solved by USE MOAR VIOLENCE RAR

Who is advocating using more violence to solve the world's problems? the only position i've ever seen anyone take against you in one of these "philosophical" debates is that violence is sometimes unfortunate but necessary. I haven't seen anyone advocate a strategy of RARGH KILL ALL ENEMIES!

[adr-admin]

The question stands.

it was answered with manson

but you know, capital punishment isn't used in much the world and society has not fallen apart

and how do you convince the families of murder victims to accept that you're letting the person who killed their loved ones out of jail because they've been "rehabilitated?"

how do they handle it now?

life sentences are fairly rare in today's society, even murderers get out of jail after a while. and the death penalty is virtually abolished

people seem to accept it well enough

[Aaron]

No it wasn't. You realize that simply being locked away from the rest of society is a pretty heinous act, right?

And that the average prisoner encounters all kinds of abuse and corruption?

[Akhlut]

It's not like 1/3 of the world's nations (which contain about half the world's population) still have capital punishment and use it, either.

[adr-admin]

Greece used a lot of nonviolence and was devastated for it.

greece also used violence which didn't help them. another example is Poland who got hurt really bad despite the resistance both violent and nonviolent and a lack of collaboration


the sad reality is when you live in a world where violence is consider ok by the majority, a lot people are going to die and there's really not much you can do about it in the short term

that's why proactive measures are necessary to prevent things from getting to that point

[Akhlut]

Greece used a lot of nonviolence and was devastated for it.

greece also used violence which didn't help them. another example is Poland who got hurt really bad despite the resistance both violent and nonviolent and a lack of collaboration

Victim-blaming is bad when used against rape victims and bad when used against people who have had their people, in whole or in part, conquered and ruled by foreign occupiers for 500 continuous years by that point.

Why not blame the fucking Germans for their militaristic society which had kowtowed to the Prussian military for 90 years at that point instead of the Greeks who simply wanted to live in their own free and independent nation without being invaded by fascist shitheads?

the sad reality is when you live in a world where violence is consider ok by the majority, a lot people are going to die and there's really not much you can do about it in the short term

What else were they supposed to do? Let 100% instead of 80% of their Jewish citizens be slaughtered? Let more people die from starvation? They tried nonviolent resistance and it did jack all shit. It only worked in nations that were allies to Hitler or were significantly Aryan in stock. If you were üntermenschen, tough shit, you'll die by bullet and fire.

that's why proactive measures are necessary to prevent things from getting to that point

Such as France and the UK invading Nazi Germany after the Anschluss?

[adr-admin]

You realize that simply being locked away from the rest of society is a pretty heinous act, right?

indeed which is why i want to reform it to make it better

btw another example is in norway: they seem to have a plan to handle that anders behring breivik guy without capital punishment too

[Aaron]

Psst...never said I was in favour of capital punishment.

Too bad your shit all relies on stuff that is politically impossible in your nation or just unworkable given the nature of humanity.

[Akhlut]

For instance, I'm pretty sure no one is ever going to be particularly happy with child molesters, regardless of any potentially successful efforts to rehabilitate them.

[adr-admin]

Why not blame the fucking Germans for their militaristic society which had kowtowed to the Prussian military for 90 years at that point instead of the Greeks who simply wanted to live in their own free and independent nation without being invaded by fascist shitheads?

ummmm i do

you guys seem to live in a black and white world

They tried nonviolent resistance and it did jack all shit.

they also tried violent resistance and it did jack all shit

i think they, like poland, were in a no-win scenario and needed outside help to make the best of it

Such as France and the UK invading Nazi Germany after the Anschluss?

that may have worked, yes. odds are attacking after they declared war in september 1939 would have helped too

as would a million other things they didn't try

[adr-admin]

Psst...never said I was in favour of capital punishment.

so what are you talking about?

i agree that the prison system needs reform and that dangerous criminal behavior needs to be dealt with

[Aaron]

I want to see where your thoughts lead.

[F.J. Prefect, Esq]

He's talking about people in the world who cannot be reasoned with and on the balance introduce more suffering into the world than good

You might say 'just lock them up'

But what if you know that capturing him alive will cost the lives of three of your people, people who on the balance introduce more good into the world than suffering

[Akhlut]

Why not blame the fucking Germans for their militaristic society which had kowtowed to the Prussian military for 90 years at that point instead of the Greeks who simply wanted to live in their own free and independent nation without being invaded by fascist shitheads?

ummmm i do

you guys seem to live in a black and white world

greece also used violence which didn't help them.

You say you're okay with self-defense, but when a nation actually tried to use it, you fucking blame the victim instead of putting it with the aggressor (beyond some cursory "oh, yeah, Nazis are terrible; now, let me cry for Hitler"). It's akin to saying that when a battered woman finally tries to fight back against her abuser and gets her jaw broke that "well, fighting back wasn't the solution."

And would you care to cry a few tears for the parents who watched their children being murdered at Nazi hands in addition to your tears for poor widdle Adolf?

They tried nonviolent resistance and it did jack all shit.

they also tried violent resistance and it did jack all shit

Up until US entry into the war, the Greeks were the ONLY nation that had successfully resisted a fascist nation at all. The sole, single nation on earth which had scored a victory against the fascists.

Had there been more Greeks or French and UK statesmen willing to actually do something about the Nazis instead of appeasement or sitting on their asses, then maybe Greece could have done more rather than fall to one of the larger militaries on earth at the time.

i think they, like poland, were in a no-win scenario and needed outside help to make the best of it

And would you have said that the UK or France should have gotten involved or would you say that they should have just tut-tutted Hitler, essentially, instead of bombing Germany and killing Nazi soldiers?

Such as France and the UK invading Nazi Germany after the Anschluss?

that may have worked, yes. odds are attacking after they declared war in september 1939 would have helped too

as would a million other things they didn't try

And, yet, prior to this, you've yet to say that a post-Anschluss or Munich Agreement invasion would have done anything while instead cleaving to "NON-VIOLENCE FOR ALL PROBLEMS, RARGH" like a drowning man to any piece of flotsam that floats by.

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Psst...never said I was in favour of capital punishment.

Too bad your shit all relies on stuff that is politically impossible in your nation or just unworkable given the nature of humanity.

He's an ideologue. Ignore him.