Testing Chat Thread

[Phantasee]

That's a paddlin'.

[Losonti Tokash]

hey knubs what's something you did in the last year to help fix america

we're running candidates in local and state elections, doing voter registration drives, setting up community parks/gardens, running workshops to teach people sewing/appliance repair skills, free classes taught by professors from the state university

and saturday we're also going to celebrate someone's birthday with a lot of drinking and possibly a bonfire

there was also that thing where we totally shifted the national dialogue from the deficit to jobs to the point where even the republican presidential candidate is inadvertently using some of our rhetoric

ps there was a huge rally in zuccotti park YESTERDAY, clearly occupy is dead

number of protests i've participated in recently: zero

there's more to occupy that marching and holding signs, and there's plenty of ways for you to be involved tucker

rhea also has chronic health problems, schoolwork, and two jobs, but still lends a hand

[Flagg]

What exactly has occupy done to "help America" other than get idiots arrested and make smug douchenozzels feel superior?

[Losonti Tokash]

btw your "obvious" trolling (that no one picked up on) doesn't actually make your posts less assholish

[Losonti Tokash]

What exactly has occupy done to "help America" other than get idiots arrested and make smug douchenozzels feel superior?

I'll ask you a serious question: What do you think Occupy should be doing?

[Flagg]

Existing. Which it doesn't as far as anyone cares. Maybe pick some leaders and have an actual agenda other than BRAHHHHH! RICH BAD!

[Aaron]

Look at that, my space racist buddy has hacked Flaggs account.

[Flagg]

How is it being racist to point out that OWS has been completely ineffective? Hey kids, wanna change the world? Join the Tea Party where you just get coopted and have to wear a funny hat and be subject to tea bagger jokes. Wanna be a hipster douche? Join OWS! You can look and smell like a homeless person and accomplish nothing, all in the name of uncertain demands.

[Bakustra]

Existing. Which it doesn't as far as anyone cares. Maybe pick some leaders and have an actual agenda other than BRAHHHHH! RICH BAD!

a) Leaders create vulnerabilities- see Wikileaks. The successful movements of the 20th century in the US have not relied on centralized leaders at all.

b) Message control is difficult because it was an ad-hoc thing that blew up and was built around inclusiveness. But in any case, the news media deliberately picked out crazies to represent OWS because they fit the narrative better. Message control won't change that- the news media has consistently portrayed every single protest movement unsympathetically.

[adr]

leaders are kinda undemocratic anyway. i like the general assembly idea

[Flagg]

And that is why you fail.

[Aaron]

How is it being racist to point out that OWS has been completely ineffective? Hey kids, wanna change the world? Join the Tea Party where you just get coopted and have to wear a funny hat and be subject to tea bagger jokes. Wanna be a hipster douche? Join OWS! You can look and smell like a homeless person and accomplish nothing, all in the name of uncertain demands.

I'm not calling you a racist. Brandon and I had a convo on live with an old friend of mine who we call "space racist"

He thought ows was mad because the rich are rich.

[Losonti Tokash]

i like that, when asked for his input on how to make occupy more effective and combat the image of it being full of smug douchenozzels, flagg says nothing and acts like a smug douchenozzle

[Bakustra]

And that is why you fail.

Any leader of a protest movement has to be impossibly perfect, especially in today's climate. I could go on about this, but I think I'll sink to your level and call you a monarchist lolz.

[Flagg]

Well I know that's not the case, but their message aside from "please mister policeman, don't pepper spray me" was muddled and basically came across that way because they didn't pick leaders and spokespeople. If no one but spokepeople talk to the media then it's hard for the media to paint them all as crazies. And it's not like they didn't focus on the most racist Teabaggers, either. The difference was that they had an organized leadership and spokespeople.

[Aaron]

Occupy in Ottawa had a council, like a city council that would meet and discuss things. A visible leader just makes for good soundbites and shit, a recognizable face because people are morons who can't grasp the idea that a group can operate without a president.

[Flagg]

i like that, when asked for his input on how to make occupy more effective and combat the image of it being full of smug douchenozzels, flagg says nothing and acts like a smug douchenozzle

So you're illiterate or a liar, I see. How about when I suggested they have a leadership and spokespeople? I guess you just cannot handle the fact that to most of the country you people come off as smelly hippies playing in garbage?

[Aaron]

The fucks in the tea party also fit with the mainstream GOP better, who are more then happy to keep removing services and attack rights.

OWS doesn't have a mainstream party to fit with cause the dems are GOP light.

[Flagg]

Occupy in Ottawa had a council, like a city council that would meet and discuss things. A visible leader just makes for good soundbites and shit, a recognizable face because people are morons who can't grasp the idea that a group can operate without a president.

In this day and age you need good soundbites and shit. And this is because most people are morons.

[Flagg]

The fucks in the tea party also fit with the mainstream GOP better, who are more then happy to keep removing services and attack rights.

OWS doesn't have a mainstream party to fit with cause the dems are GOP light.

This is true. Still, if they had had an organized leadership and a coherant message they could have become a major voting bloc for the Dems who would have had to listen to their demands, had they actually you know, had some.

[Aaron]

Agreed.

[Losonti Tokash]

did you know that most occupy groups have a pr team, spokespeople who are well eloquent and educated, a simple set of basic ideas everyone agrees on and that none of it matters because the media wants to talk to the guy who randomly showed up with a "jews did 911" sign

[Bakustra]

Well I know that's not the case, but their message aside from "please mister policeman, don't pepper spray me" was muddled and basically came across that way because they didn't pick leaders and spokespeople. If no one but spokepeople talk to the media then it's hard for the media to paint them all as crazies. And it's not like they didn't focus on the most racist Teabaggers, either. The difference was that they had an organized leadership and spokespeople.

They did have media tents and designated spokespeople. The media ignored them to pick out crazies and the unwashed, just like they ignored all the WWII and Vietnam vets who protested Vietnam, or invented shit outright to slander feminism... there comes a point at which engagement with the news media must be understood through the lens that the media are invested in the status quo and will do their best to destroy any challengers to it.

And again, central leaders are a liability. They are targets for slander, become symbolic of the movement, and are targets for organized or disorganized violence if the movement begins to succeed. The civil rights movement had a number of organizations with individual leaders, but they didn't attempt to bring the masses that tried to register to vote or challenge segregation under particular organizations. It's only with hindsight that MLK was made the head of the movement.

[RyanThunder]

"marketability" is an abomination unto humanity and the universe, a grotesque mechanization of the human soul, a denial that there is such a thing as the life of the mind or ever can be any worth or value or beauty or joy outside the realm of the market

to hell with "marketability"

FUCK yes

[Aaron]

Several of which were murdered.

Brandon, shockingly no. Because, well...guy with Jew sign.