Testing Chat IV: A New Hope

[The Spartan]

You're nothing.
You're a nobody.
You're worthless.

Along those lines?

[Oxymoron]

You're nothing.
You're a nobody.
You're worthless.

Along those lines?

More along the line of the first two, but with underlying hints of the third.

[Dooey Jo]

Heisenberg was not only a pre-eminent physicist whom even the Nazis realised they were better off with than without, however "Jewish" his theory might be in the eyes of Stark and Lenard, but Heisenberg had, as a young boy, attended school with SS chief Heinrich Himmler. In a historic moment, Heisenberg's mother rang Himmler's mother and asked her if she would please tell the SS to give "Werner" a break. After beginning a full character evaluation, which Heisenberg both instigated and passed, Himmler forbade further attack on the physicist. Heisenberg would later employ his "Jewish physics," in the German project to develop nuclear fission for the purposes of nuclear weapons or nuclear energy use.

mom is my science jewish?

of course not dear who says that?

the nazis

their mothers will hear of this

[Oxymoron]

source ?

[evilsoup]

so
Bradley Manning's trial today
all I can say is that I wish him well, though I don't see any way that he won't be convicted

[Darksi4190]

didn't straha post something on SDN about Manning self-identifying as female?

[evilsoup]

Well I wouldn't know about that now would I
link pls?

[Darksi4190]

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &view=next

The thread in question

[adr]

there's conflicting info on that; in another one of his statements, Manning said he wants to be called he right now as he doesn't want his personal life to be a public issue or something like that, I don't have the link right now

[Infinity Biscuit]

The take I read on Manning and her personal life was that she didn't fear death as a consequence for being caught doing what she did, but rather having her exposed to the world as "a man" in the world's eye.

That said I'm surprised it's actually going to trial. Wasn't the whole setup basically permanent detention without trial or am I misremembering?

[adr]

here's the other side:

http://www.bradleymanning.org/news/femi ... ey-manning

We do know — from our own private conversations with friends and family members — that prior to his incarceration, Manning had not asked people to refer to him with a female pronoun.
[...]

From the earliest stages, the Bradley Manning Support Network has sought to honor Manning’s choices. Early in the campaign, we reached out to Manning’s aunt and lawyer and asked what name he preferred we use in our advocacy. They got back to us to say that “Brad” or “Bradley” would be fine.

[...]

Notably, [Bradley Manning] didn’t ask us to start referring to him as Breanna. Advocates for Manning have an obligation to respect his agency and use the pronoun he had preferred prior to his arrest. None of us has the right to switch pronouns for Manning unless he tells us otherwise.

now, obviously there's all kinds of reasons why he might not say anything, or his family/lawyers say "brad", even if he does want to be called she, indeed that's pretty likely that there's more going on here

but at the same time i don't think it is right for us to jump to conclusions and what's going on in another person's head, especially from reading private conversations released to the public against his or her will


so i really don't know what to do, but since the sources closest to him say he wants to be called he right now, that's what i'm going with, at least until Manning publically says something different

[Flagg]

The take I read on Manning and her personal life was that she didn't fear death as a consequence for being caught doing what she did, but rather having her exposed to the world as "a man" in the world's eye.

That said I'm surprised it's actually going to trial. Wasn't the whole setup basically permanent detention without trial or am I misremembering?

No there was always going to be a trial. They just kept him in deplorable conditions to try and get him to roll on the hero Assange.

[Jung]

I heard one of the things they're trying to get Manning on is by leaking stuff to the media and therefore the public he allowed the enemy to know it

Is this true?

Because if so that's some Orwellian shit there

[Flagg]

I heard one of the things they're trying to get Manning on is by leaking stuff to the media and therefore the public he allowed the enemy to know it

Is this true?

Because if so that's some Orwellian shit there

Yeah, apparently they found some of the shit he leaked at OBLs compound, which isn't a shock since it was all made public.

[Jung]

The public is equivalent to the enemy

Just the concept fills my mind with fuck

[Flagg]

Yeah it's a fucked up charge that in a normal court wouldn't even be on the table.

[adr]

yeah that's the main charge going into the trial; a guilty plea settled some of the others already

[Oxymoron]

Guilty plea to what charges ?

[adr]

you know i don't actually know for sure and am having a hard time finding it right now (web searches are bringing up more recent stuff and the plea happened a few months ago)

but i found a list of all the charges:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/0 ... re-charge/


note this was written in 2011. yes manning has been imprisoned for that fucking long before trial. and the imprisonment went a long time without charges too!

The charges, filed Tuesday but not disclosed until Wednesday, are one count of aiding the enemy, five counts of theft of public property or records, two counts of computer fraud, eight counts of transmitting defense information in violation of the Espionage Act, and one count of wrongfully causing intelligence to be published on the internet knowing it would be accessible to the enemy. The aiding-the-enemy charge is a capital offense, potentially carrying the death penalty. Five additional charges are for violating Army computer-security regulations.

and i know the guilty was for 10 of the 22 charges

i know he is fighting the biggest bullshit, but admitted to leaking the info for the public good. this is my speculation since i can't find a real source but i think the guilty plea was for the theft of public records and violating Army security regulations. that adds up to ten

[Flagg]

Yeah he pleaded to the stuff he actually you know, did.

[RyanThunder]

Uh, the set of all people ("everybody", "the public", etc.) contains the subset denoted "the enemy". Therefore informing the public would also inform "the enemy". "the public" is not in any way equivalent to "the enemy" in that case.

Say what you will about all the other shit they've done, but that's entirely reasonable.

[Jung]

What hits me is the implied notion that I'm supposed to just trust our Men On The Wall with what is PROPER FOR ME TO KNOW

And attempting to circumvent that is directly equivalent to helping the enemy

Cause it's not like they might be way bigger threats to AMURRICAN LIBERTY than Al Quaeda could ever be

[Darksi4190]

I've never actually read the Wikileaks cables. Is there any information in them that might be of use to our actual enemies, I.E. Al Quaeda and other terrorist groups? I mean if Manning was publishing the locations and travel routes of SEAL Teams and such, then yeah I understand going after her for treason. But from my understanding, it was just a bunch of diplomatic information.

I know some government officials have come forward and said that people (mostly Afghan and Iraqi informants) have died as a result of the Wikileaks release, but i've never seen that corroborated by a third-party so i'm taking it with a grain of salt.

[RyanThunder]

What hits me is the implied notion that I'm supposed to just trust our Men On The Wall with what is PROPER FOR ME TO KNOW

And attempting to circumvent that is directly equivalent to helping the enemy

Cause it's not like they might be way bigger threats to AMURRICAN LIBERTY than Al Quaeda could ever be

I'll agree that there needs to be some means of oversight that will ensure that only things that really need to be kept SEKRIT are kept secret.

But I can't agree with, say, total transparency. Because that would be silly for reasons that should be obvious.

[Flagg]

I've never actually read the Wikileaks cables. Is there any information in them that might be of use to our actual enemies, I.E. Al Quaeda and other terrorist groups? I mean if Manning was publishing the locations and travel routes of SEAL Teams and such, then yeah I understand going after her for treason. But from my understanding, it was just a bunch of diplomatic information.

I know some government officials have come forward and said that people (mostly Afghan and Iraqi informants) have died as a result of the Wikileaks release, but i've never seen that corroborated by a third-party so i'm taking it with a grain of salt.

One of the things he released was the names and personal information of every soldier stationed in Iraq.