Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

[evilsoup]

ryanthunder personal preference is one thing (I mean we can get into armchair psychologising about the reasons, but I'd rather not)
but why do you feel the need to tell everyone about it?

[Oxymoron]

just to be sure

who is 'you' ?

[RyanThunder]

just seeing which way the wind is blowing

[evilsoup]

ryanthunder, who else..? (in reply to oxy)

[evilsoup]

just seeing which way the wind is blowing

after the last five or six times everyone jumped on you for similar stuff,
I'd have thought that you'd be able to figure out the prevailing attitudes here about this stuff

[RyanThunder]

well now I know that apparently its not enough to be respectful of transpeople, and willing to support legislation to protect them. now i have to be down to fuck them too

[RyanThunder]

it's good to know

[evilsoup]

no
who you are attracted to is your own business
it would be nice if you didn't say 'I wouldn't ever have sex with a transwoman', because then you're insulting a whole swathe of people

[Infinity Biscuit]

It's just that it shows some sort of disconnect in how you perceive them. Try to think about it. Why don't you want to ever fuck a trans woman, simply because she's trans and not any part of her character or appearance?

[Oxymoron]

just seeing which way the wind is blowing

[smirk]

I take it you're trying to subtly hint at a supposed cowardice on my part ?

Bah.

I simply wouldn't want to get defensive and start being (passive-)aggressive over a simple misunderstanding.

[Questor]

Oh jesus christ. Has this topic been brought up again?

This kind of repeated beating of dead equines is really just not in any way interesting or entertaining (at least to me). Ryan - you are acting like a jerk, if you really believe what you are presenting, you know you are in a minority of one or two here, why would you bring it up? IB - you are showing rather bad judgement - you know he's not going to change, so why engage? It's not healthy, mentally or physically, for either of you to have these continuous unproductive debates. Changing minds on this forum is rather unlikely, If you want to have a debate where you can blast at each other and some good might come of it, SDN's colosseum would be a much better venue. There's a broader range of political ideas there, and a much more active base of people joining that might be educated and brought to your point of view.

While I in general agree with IB, that doesn't excuse Ryan of the responsibility to either make good arguments or at least be funny about the way he makes bad ones. Ryan, don't you have any pride?

[Darksi4190]

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/photo ... 63754.html

Ugh. Sometimes I think we should just move all the people out of Detroit, nuke it, fill in the crater, and start from scratch.

[Oxymoron]

The morbid yet fascinating beauty of decay.

[Flagg]

If Vampires were real, they would be living in man made caves looking much like that. Man move The Walking Dead to Detroit! It could pass for outside DC. I mean Georgia isn't real. Dear god is Georgia real? I don't want to live in this multiverse anymore.

[Flagg]

Oh jesus christ. Has this topic been brought up again?

This kind of repeated beating of dead equines is really just not in any way interesting or entertaining (at least to me). Ryan - you are acting like a jerk, if you really believe what you are presenting, you know you are in a minority of one or two here, why would you bring it up? IB - you are showing rather bad judgement - you know he's not going to change, so why engage? It's not healthy, mentally or physically, for either of you to have these continuous unproductive debates. Changing minds on this forum is rather unlikely, If you want to have a debate where you can blast at each other and some good might come of it, SDN's colosseum would be a much better venue. There's a broader range of political ideas there, and a much more active base of people joining that might be educated and brought to your point of view.

While I in general agree with IB, that doesn't excuse Ryan of the responsibility to either make good arguments or at least be funny about the way he makes bad ones. Ryan, don't you have any pride?

He's Catholic, pride is a sin. When you're Catholic just about everything is. I went Sunday school I know this shit, kiddies.

[Oxymoron]

What's funny with the notion of "sin", is that even if the original thinkers may not have had this in mind when they had it in the first place ; it's one that end up putting everything that is considered sinful on the same level.

And this has... interesting side effects, yes.

[Flagg]

Stop musing frenchy. Or I'll get into a row with you, sir. A mighty row!

[Questor]

He's Catholic, pride is a sin. When you're Catholic just about everything is. I went Sunday school I know this shit, kiddies.

So am I. Its a little bit more complicated than that, at least if you're actually paying attention.

Not a lot more complicated I grant, but a little.

P.S. Is your issue with catholics or the catholic church? Most catholics are not the catholic church. Most catholics don't even agree with the catholic church on a lot of issues.

[Flagg]

Anyone who gives money to the Catholic Church.

[Questor]

Anyone who gives money to the Catholic Church.

Oh, on that we can agree. (I didn't say I was a good catholic.)

[adr]

"you were going to kill that guy!"

"of course. i am a terminator"

high quality film. even just barely squeaked by on the bechdel test, the only one of the ten movies i've watched this year that actually did

i've never seen the third movie in this franchise. i've heard it is ok, but... i feel like the story is complete here.


BTW nice vtol warship scorescreak the machines had up there at the beginning.

[Flagg]

"you were going to kill that guy!"

"of course. i am a terminator"

high quality film. even just barely squeaked by on the bechdel test, the only one of the ten movies i've watched this year that actually did

i've never seen the third movie in this franchise. i've heard it is ok, but... i feel like the story is complete here.


BTW nice vtol warship scorescreak the machines had up there at the beginning.

I'm unaware of a third movie in this franchise. There's a pseudo prequel set in the future, but that's about it.

[Jung]

No, you didn't, but what possible reason could a doctor's or parent's assignment of gender to someone play in how attracted you are to them? It's not the assigned gender that's the issue for you, and it should be pretty obvious what actually is (your mind seeing those people as men anyway)

You know, I'm completely supportive of trans people getting to live their own gender identity and have it respected, and transphobia-driven desire to be shitty to trans people pisses me off, and I don't believe a transwoman is a man or not a woman, and these have been my beliefs for years, but ... I'm not sure I wouldn't feel at least a little discomfort if I ever ended up actually being a position of sleeping with one. I'm not sure how I'd react, but I'm not confident it would be just "well, I'm a totally enlightened not-transphobic person so there is no problem."

We live and grow up in a culture steeped in homophobia, transphobia, and (especially if you're a guy) gender-policing. Even if you're not consciously bigoted that shit is going to have an effect on how your brain works. If you at any point bought into into an explicit homophobic and transphobic ideology like I once did I can't imagine that does anything but make it worse. Consciously having not bigoted beliefs doesn't mean all your emotions suddenly become "correct" by not-bigot standards; the human mind doesn't work that way (and if it did we'd probably have a lot less of a racism and sexism problem), and who you'd be willing to have sex with is a deeply emotional and personal thing.

I'm sure you don't mean it that way (at least I really hope so) but it sounds like you're basically telling Ryanthunder that there are right and wrong reasons for not wanting to sleep with somebody and his reasons are wrong, with no apparent acknowledgement that such "reasons" aren't things that are necessarily going to be rational or things you can consciously control. Frankly, it makes reading some of your posts more than a bit creepy to me; you don't have to follow that kind of logic very far at all to go to some seriously horrifying places (like "if you ever do find yourself in such a position you should ignore your bigoted and therefore invalid feelings").

Am I seriously the only person who had this reaction? I mean, I know it's Ryanthunder being his worst self again, but really?

[Infinity Biscuit]

I never said that his reasons are conscious choices or anything, or that he should go force himself against them right now or anything. Just that if you're turned off from someone just because they're trans (and not because, say, they have genitals that turn you off sexually, or they are too masculine/feminine/whatever for your tastes), then it can't really be coming anywhere but from bigotry. And yes, most bigotries are ones learnt unconsciously from culture, and so I don't tend to judge people simply for having them, but in Ryan's case it's a matter of not only acknowledging it but also stubbornly clinging to it and, at least somewhat, defending it.

I see it as different in some ways but similar overall to the phenomenon of people discriminating by race when it comes to sexual partners: to use a specific common example, white people declaring themselves categorically unattracted to black people. Yes, in here it's likely not a conscious choice but ingrained from society's constant message of white beauty being real beauty and things like dark skin, certain facial features, tight curly hair, etc as being aesthetically lesser, as well as the usual xenophobic tendencies societies exhibit. I'm not going to judge a person simply for having such a bias, but if they cling to it consciously rather than making the choice to try to get around it when the issue comes to light, then comes the judgement.

In here there's another element where I wonder how much you consider someone's gender identity as fully real if there's... well for lack of better word, the "taint" of their assigned gender keeping you from being attracted to them.

[RyanThunder]

Just to clear up a couple things here;
1. I'm not catholic.
2. I would never imply the French are inherently cowardly as an insult.