New Testingstan

evilsoup wrote:hey what happened to the trollface smiley

I think Phant was finally butthurt about it enough and deleted it.

RyanThunder wrote: I can't believe that thread has dragged on as long as it has. The whole thing is just hongi and a couple other guys stupidly going "lol there is no morality everything is relative" over and over. That is not a useful discussion. That's totally counterproductive, even, or I'd put up with it. What I said is about all the effort that should've gone into responding to him, because its all the effort that was going to go into finding a functional morality that doesn't amount to "fuck it, just do whatever you want".

yeah why can't that thread meet the high standards of ryanthunder, paragon of discourse

Well, fuck you too, buddy.

It's trivially easy to show that our decisions can greatly influence our lifespan, and that our lifespan is therefore not pre-ordained. But Sarevok is a Muslim, isn't he? He presumably thinks everything is pre-ordained.

I bag on Sarevok as much as anyone, but exactly what is Wong implying here? On the surface, that sounds, well, racist's not quite the right word, but "religionist" might be.

Link, Questor?

RogueIce wrote:

evilsoup wrote:hey what happened to the trollface smiley

I think Phant was finally butthurt about it enough and deleted it.

Fairly sure the image is still there, so if you can dig up the URL it you can link to it via the img tags

RyanThunder wrote:

Baks-kun wrote:on the other hand, ryan just going "lol yer dumb *farts*" is annoying as hell and i'm glad stofsk is willing to fuck his shit up for that

I can't believe that thread has dragged on as long as it has. The whole thing is just hongi and a couple other guys stupidly going "lol there is no morality everything is relative" over and over. That is not a useful discussion. That's totally counterproductive, even, or I'd put up with it. What I said is about all the effort that should've gone into responding to him, because its all the effort that was going to go into finding a functional morality that doesn't amount to "fuck it, just do whatever you want".

thank you for being an idiot, ry-ry

Questor wrote:

It's trivially easy to show that our decisions can greatly influence our lifespan, and that our lifespan is therefore not pre-ordained. But Sarevok is a Muslim, isn't he? He presumably thinks everything is pre-ordained.

I bag on Sarevok as much as anyone, but exactly what is Wong implying here? On the surface, that sounds, well, racist's not quite the right word, but "religionist" might be.

he ain't implying anything, he's outright saying that "religion makes you stupid, lol eat shit godhavers"

Baks-kun wrote:

Questor wrote:

It's trivially easy to show that our decisions can greatly influence our lifespan, and that our lifespan is therefore not pre-ordained. But Sarevok is a Muslim, isn't he? He presumably thinks everything is pre-ordained.

I bag on Sarevok as much as anyone, but exactly what is Wong implying here? On the surface, that sounds, well, racist's not quite the right word, but "religionist" might be.

he ain't implying anything, he's outright saying that "religion makes you stupid, lol eat shit godhavers"

But does that make it more acceptable to do that to TEO's christians? Prominent ones and all?

"I support X."
"Of course you do, you're a christian."

i find it kinda funny seeing wong talk about shit like this seeing how he (and his trusty ass kissers) are so opposed to the idea of free will

They are ?

oh yes, whenever the topic comes up they quickly bring up the empirical science arguments: what law of physics allows for it? why can these fMRIs not see a free will lobe?

shit like that

i presume that he thinks so, and justifies not attacking christians he's personally friends with on the grounds that he has either forgiven their sheer stupidity in being religious or has admitted to himself that they're not idiots

he does do similar stuff to christians every so often

adr wrote:oh yes, whenever the topic comes up they quickly bring up the empirical science arguments: what law of physics allows for it? why can these fMRIs not see a free will lobe?

shit like that

and they do it while citing definitions of free will that are functionally useless and generally made solely to mock

They really think that the Universe is a purely deterministic clockwork, do they ?

adr wrote:oh yes, whenever the topic comes up they quickly bring up the empirical science arguments: what law of physics allows for it? why can these fMRIs not see a free will lobe?

shit like that

Man, the brain doesn't work like that.

Anyways, is South Korea actually going to resume whaling or is this a proposal?

Oxymoron wrote:They really think that the Universe is a purely deterministic clockwork, do they ?

no b/c there's quantum randomness but randomness ain't free will either

Questor wrote: DW's always been closer to a bible-belter than he likes to admit. He's what I think of as a fundamentalist/evangelical atheist. "This is what an atheist believes and all who do not believe this are less atheist than me, and I must convert non-believers to my faith so that they may be saved from damnation." There's a number of them on TEO, they're coming out of the woodwork in the circumcision topic.

His ethics, in this case, almost look collectivist, but I'd be really curious if he builds them out that way.

Yeah, he ironically comes across as almost dogmatic in his atheism as Christian fundies and doesn't make him a barrel of laughs. Over on TGWTG there's this annoying shitposter called Cotton and in this thread he is so chillingly very much a Diet Darth Wong, banging out his atheist rhetoric like clockwork in many other threads, seemingly having a three foot rod of razorwire jammed up his backside.They're ultimately not fun to have around and Cotton over on TGWTG, lacking the arbitrary mod powers Wong had, was crap at winning friends and good at alienating people and not surprisingly put on many ignore lists.

Oxymoron wrote:They really think that the Universe is a purely deterministic clockwork, do they ?

i guess for engineers and physicists and other forms of scienticians thats true, rocks and suns and galaxies and shit totally move with deterministic clockwork gravitons graviolies ravioli mechanisms

but for human beings and lifeforms that work and behave and evolve and develop and act in such counter-intuitive idiosyncratic ways, such is not the case

which is why liek dr. manghattan can predict all the atoms and make mars clocks and shit, and for a time was all despondent in being able to see and predict and experience the past, present and future of the temporal universe

yet the fact that a breastbleeding psycho inseminating a whoreswhoreswhores produces whorish jailbait that gives him a blue boner is to him an epiphany miracle that makes him go woah at such a simple thing despite spending how many issues being all meh at life, the universe and everything

I think the world is deterministic, or at least that the definitions of free will I've heard have all been pretty meaningless (I guess randomness might be a part of things)

but it doesn't really affect the way I live, I still treat people as if they have free will
...well ok, actually I think a belief in determinism should lead to more tolerance, but this doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people, even if it is for me. But if you recognise that there are wider cultural/environmental/etc reasons why people do bad things, and it's not just them choosing to be dickheads...
bah, you know what I mean.

Everything might all be determined from the big bang onwards due to physical forces, but that doesn't make it predictable, so for most practical purposes free will is 'right'.


also, today on anti-america watch: darth wong has seen a thread about british democracy failing, and has for some reason decided to say 'lol america sucks even more'.

well, imo, america deserves all the anti it can get, and maybe a couple of anti supplement prescriptions, and a free subscription to an anti-channel

and a goatee-wearing anti-matter america continent can fall from an interdimensional portal in the sky too

yeah but I mean
there's a point where people are just posting in unrelated threads
and wouldn't an anti-matter anti-america explode the world in half or something

americans always liked their freedomization

I believe that it really doesn't matter whether or not the universe is deterministic. If it is, we'll never be able to properly verify it or make reliable predictions on it thanks to things like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and the observer effect.

So: Live like you have self-determination. If you're wrong about it, not only can it never be proven, but you were predetermined to act that way anyways. And if you're right, you're acting as responsibly as you reasonably can in regards to your own capabilities and consequences of your actions.

I guess it's kind of a deterministic modification of Pascal's Wager.

and also
it's all europeans and canadians and other first worlders doing it
and they're so fucking smug
I'll try to put this in your terms shroom

it's like
laughing at a morbidly obese land-whale being carried out of a hole in the wall of their house by a construction crane
while ignoring that you yourself have just had a triple heart bypass
and in fact you're using that laughter to cover up your own insecurities & ingratiate yourself with some other fat (but not quite land-whales... man-elephants?) fatsos

so if life is all this profound mechanicalistic quantum foam tachyonic superstring mathemathological computating algorithms and stuff

idk it seems like as relevant to daily living and dealing with shit in life and/or being awesome in life as any other high falooting concept of reality origin or shit

like, one of the reasons i ditched religulon was because all that praise jeebus burn in hell guilt tripping faith healing whatever was really not relevent irl and was a waste of time

sure, photon gigajoule synchronization life journals may be more real than jesus and stuff

but idk doesn't really seem like its worth the time and menergy to bother thinking about or waste any time on

evilsoup wrote:and also
it's all europeans and canadians and other first worlders doing it
and they're so fucking smug
I'll try to put this in your terms shroom

it's like
laughing at a morbidly obese land-whale being carried out of a hole in the wall of their house by a construction crane
while ignoring that you yourself have just had a triple heart bypass
and in fact you're using that laughter to cover up your own insecurities & ingratiate yourself with some other fat (but not quite land-whales... man-elephants?) fatsos

hmmm...

yeah, they are all a bunch of fat ugly people

shame

i guess solution is to either grow thicker skin, and/or do something so you won't have to give a fuck about what other useless ugly fat people have to say, and or both

and if this cant be done

too bad

thinking and talking about all that free will, where do we come from stuff, all that - it can be interesting and expand and exercise the mind
but ideally it should be done with some friends in the evening, with a few bottles of wine
not rah rah I'm right QED handfucker stuff

I also find theology can be fun in the same way, but then I was raised an atheist so I guess I don't have any emotional baggage attached to that stuff