New Testingstan

Ralin wrote:

Crazedwraith wrote:Two Half death stars according to the first book.

Well damn.

I'm starting to consider the possibility that I'm remembering things imperfectly.

Any chance someone can quote-quote it? that sounds entertaining.

Was under the impression Wedge got partial credit for the second Death Star, not the first. I do distinctly remember him reflecting that he "Had fired the shot that helped destroy the [Endor] Death Star and killed the Emperor." Either way, he did make it all the way to the reactor with Lando, as opposed to Luke being the only one who got to the external exhaust port at Yavin.

The Spartan wrote:Four? Are you counting Han and Chewie in that? I thought only two Xwings (including Luke) and a single Ywing made it through the whole thing.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Then again I hadn't considered if anyone gives assists to those who died before the target went down, too.

There's probably enough different ways you could go about it to justify just about any sort of credit split, I guess.

They probably just put the half death star to indicate an assist regardless of what fraction of credit is due rather than mucking about with quarters and eighths

The Spartan wrote:Four? Are you counting Han and Chewie in that? I thought only two Xwings (including Luke) and a single Ywing made it through the whole thing.

I don't know what the EU says about it but we only see two X-wings and a Y-wing. It's possible there were more that made it through alive that were off-stage, so to speak.

The film doesn't give us a complete picture of what happened at the Battle of Yavin. We mostly follow Red squadron around, Gold squadron appears to be like three Y-wings. An imperial officer reported to Vader that they counted 30 Rebel fighters, but we don't actually see that many onscreen at once. (Not even in the Special edition IIRC) And the novelisation actually says there were four squadrons up there, with two fighting diversionary battles at other parts of the Death Star. (Of course, the novelisation also called Red squadron Blue squadron, sooo...)

The Thrawn novels captured much of the spirit of the original series, and they were basically the re-ignition of passion in Star wars so the repetition hadn't set in. THrawn was an interesting (and complex) opponent, and not really the villain despite being part of the Empire. There was a superweapon (of sorts) that had to be destroyed by the heroes, there was the whole requisite 'jedi' bits, and you had the heroes getting into situations they had to escape out of. You had travel to new and exotic locations. You had epic battles. You also had new things like the situations being reversed.. the REbels were now the Established Authority and the Imperials were the insurgents, which created a whole different sort of paradigm for the heroes to deal with. It was the combination of those factors, plus the relative 'newness' of the EU itself, that gave the Thrawn trilogy its charm. as Magic Princess says, the following Zahn books never really quite captured the magic of the original ones (if anything many of them seemed to get worse...)

The Stackpole novels are good because they're deliciously pulpy. If you can avoid getting aggrvated at 'special snowflake' Corran horn, and the fact they're based of the X-wing video games does not give you a aneurysm, they're pretty enjoyable reads. I think though that they really lack the character development and depth that the Allston novels had. Allston generally just developed more distinctive and memorable characters, and their fates impacted you more than anything in the Stackpole books, and they had interesting quirks and flaws. Also the banter between people was just better (Janson and the stuffed ewok is the best. Also 'bleed and die, yub yub.' Imagine being a TIE fighter pilot and seeing the Ewok of Doom sweeping down on you...)

I also think Allston gets the same credit Zahn got for making an interesting opponent who was more than a one dimensional bad guy. Or rather borrowing Zsinj from 'Courtship of Princess Leia' and making him into something more complex and interesting. I actually find myself liking Zsinj as much as I did the Wraiths, and I think that counts for something.

The KJA novels aren't really bad either, they're.. bland. Dull. Nothing of really great interest happens. They had some promise, and I suspect a different writer could have made something of it, but there's just really nothing that compels or draws you forward in them. Darksaber was, IMHO, actually a bit better, as you had that compelling stuff and it drove to a sort of climax, although even then it was more adequate as far as SW novels go.

Luceno, Reaves and Denning are generally the other SW authors I consider to be the worthwhile ones, more often because they're willing to break out of the paradigms and try for something different or interesting with the setting compared to other authors. Reaves when teamed upw ith Perry produces some fairly interesting work consistently (Darth Maul Shadow Hunter, Death STar, the MedStar duology.. I still have fond memories of the latter for the whole 'MASH in space' feel of it.)

Oh and Brian Daley. Daley's Han Solo novels have that same feeling of 'star wars' Zahn did, but it also has a wonderful pulpy-ness about it too.

Glass Fort MacLeod wrote: It was the combination of those factors, plus the relative 'newness' of the EU itself, that gave the Thrawn trilogy its charm. as Magic Princess says, the following Zahn books never really quite captured the magic of the original ones (if anything many of them seemed to get worse...)

The only Zahn books I ever enjoyed enough to re-read that came after the Thrawn Trilogy was the Hand Duology that closed out the Bantam era of the SW EU. It brought together a bunch of the characters that had been established and really changed the foundations of the setting by ending the Galactic Civil War. It had the feel of an epic ending to it and i'm kind of a sucker for those. It just felt like a perfect book end to close out the post-RotJ era stories that were focusing on the characters from the films. Of course the LFL licensing arm couldn't give up the sweet sweet cash cow, and proceeded to shoe-horn the main trio into every subsequent series in an entirely too active role.

I remember when the NJO came out, when I read Vector Prime for the first time, I was really excited. It was supposed to be this new era, with the aging heroes of old unable to defeat this new, powerful, and unorthodox enemy. I think the NJO should have been more of a story about the heroes of the OT and the Bantam era EU "passing the torch" to the new generation of galactic defenders. They did some stuff with it. Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin Solo all came of age and took their place as Jedi, the latter sacrificing himself on Myrkr, they introduced newer, younger characters whom the mantle could be passed to as the old ones bowed into the sunset, hell, in the end, it wasn't the grand-master son of the chosen one Luke Skywalker who ultimately defeated the big bad behind the Vong invasion, it was Jacen Solo, proving that the new generation was ready to safeguard the Galaxy.


But unfortunately they didn't go far enough with it. I really think that the NJO shouldn't have had nearly as much focus on the movie characters that it did, and that it should have shifted the focus to a new generation of characters. Yes, Jacen and Jaina became more active characters in major galactic events instead of being the kids in the background during them, but Luke, Han, and Leia were still around and taking an entirely too active role for their age. I think the "generational shift" Is the only way that the post-RotJ era could have remained fresh and interesting. The NJO had it's "cash cow" moments to be sure, but there was still some substance left there and the opportunity to keep the setting fresh and interesting, and that's just something I haven't felt from either of the subsequent book series. Hell, LotF's plot was such a terrible re-hash of the prequels that It basically killed my interest in the setting without me even reading any of the books. Seriously. I got a free copy of Betrayal at SW Celebration IV when I went with my dad and I still haven't read it. The only stories I'm really interested in that still involve the main OT characters are the self-contained ones like Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, that are set in-between the previous material. I just don't care what happens next anymore.

That's why, if Disney chooses to keep any of the post-RotJ EU stuff instead of just throwing it all out, I think either Vision of the Future or The Unifying Force are the only really good cut-off points, points where it feels like "this could be a finale for this setting, so we could make way for new characters."

The KJA novels aren't really bad either, they're.. bland. Dull. Nothing of really great interest happens. They had some promise, and I suspect a different writer could have made something of it, but there's just really nothing that compels or draws you forward in them. Darksaber was, IMHO, actually a bit better, as you had that compelling stuff and it drove to a sort of climax, although even then it was more adequate as far as SW novels go.

KJA's novels are not god-awful. I see people give him shit over the Young Jedi Knights series, but half the time people forget what those books are. They are short, simple books meant to introduce young readers (probably between 9-12) to the setting, and they do that job well enough. I read them all when I was that age, but I wouldn't go back and re-read them. I think the only things worth salvaging from those books are Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin Solo, who other writers developed better in the NJO series. Of course Legacy fucked Jacen and Jaina over completely so it ended up being for nothing.

KJA's problem is that he's basically a hack, and this comes across in all of his novels, so they get more shit than they really deserve. But remember that a surprising amount of the people that have written for Star Wars were mildly noteworthy in the sci-fi field. Zahn has won multiple Hugos, Stover is a respectable lower-tier author with Caine Black Knife, Alan Dean Foster has been the avatar of mid-grade sci-fi authors since the sixties, Kristine Kathryn Rusch edited F&SF for most of the nineties, Vonda McIntyre won two Nebulas and a Hugo (not that sci-fi awards mean that much, mind), and, well, that's about it for the Bantam era, and I don't care enough to dig through all of the Del Rey people. So not all that many, in the end.

It's surprising how low the overall quality is, though, respective to things like WH40K or Doctor Who or Star Trek. I wonder if this is a consequence of tighter editorial policies on the part of LucasBooks keeping authors creatively restrained.

Would a passing mod bump this thread to New Testing ? It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

Oxymoron wrote:Would a passing mod bump this thread to New Testing ? It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

Done.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mD4ClIP6V_U

aww yeaaaah

an ok James Earl Jones soundalike

Getting shot and crashing into your wingman from sheer incompetence. Not just for the Empire anymore.

i never noticed until recently but rebel pilots have their knees tied together

it's like having an entire fleet of Iori from king of fighters

http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/stor ... 151068.asp

So if this is real, it looks like a significant amount of the EU is being tossed.

also people on TFN are reporting that DVDs and Blu-rays of TCW are becoming scarce on store shelves. Anyone interested in owning physical copies of the series might want to head out or check online retailers while they are still available.

Failing that, buy copies to put on ebay at inflated prices.

I have a little bit of spare cash, so i'm ordering the season 1 dvd right now, and i'll probably get season 2 when I get my tax refund.

Seasons 3 and 4, i'll probably try to get over the summer. I'm actually not sure if they're releasing season 5 anymore.

Darksi4190 wrote:http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/stor ... 151068.asp

So if this is real, it looks like a significant amount of the EU is being tossed.

it looks like it's based on the game that just got canceled so i doubt that this is real. and i was about ready to put on some phil collins


http://youtube.com/watch?v=YkADj0TPrJA

Darksi4190 wrote:http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/stor ... 151068.asp

So if this is real, it looks like a significant amount of the EU is being tossed.

The "source" is a post on an IMDb board. So...yeah.

On the other hand, much more official news that Dave Filoni is still doing animated stuff, which is awesome.

To be honest, while TCW had its good points, it had a lot of bad ones too. I could take or leave Filoni at this point.

It all depends on the setting and theme of whatever animation project they do next. If it's anything that would require any kind of focus on the senate or politics, I would say keep Filoni the hell away from it.

Darksi4190 wrote:I remember one of the first Star Wars books I ever read was a collection of Brian Daley's Han Solo adventures. In those novels he's still very much the person he is in the fist movie. He sort of cares about some people, but he's still very much in it for the money. Reading those books gave me a much better idea of who Han Solo was before he walked into a bar on Tattoine and into the annals of galactic history. Having a better impression of Han's smuggler character made his change in the movies much more pronounced.

Those were fucking great books, easily among the best SW books written. The only book I would place above them is Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of The Mind's Eye.

Count Chocula wrote:Those were fucking great books, easily among the best SW books written. The only book I would place above them is Alan Dean Foster's Splinter of The Mind's Eye.

I have been meaning to read "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" since before I was ten years old.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BDbwwnpexjg

a Star Wars memory in the making

So yeah, big surprise, Lucasfilm has confirmed that "Star Wars: Reclamation" is bullshit.

I'm honestly glad. Not because I want them to keep the EU, I've already made my peace with the fact that it's going to be discarded, but because the stuff presented in that outline just looked horrible.

On some level I wish they would keep the existing EU in continuity, but I know they won't do that, so realistically all I want is for whatever they replace it with to either be as good or hopefully better than what's being kicked to the curb, and that "Reclamation" stuff just didn't look very good at all.

So my TCW season 1 dvd's showed up on friday, and I have to say i'm a little disappointed. Not with the show itself, I mean I know that only about six or seven episodes of the season can stand up to more than the occasional viewing, but for 20 bucks that isn't bad.

What's disappointing is the packaging itself. It's just a standard DVD case, like you might see with a movie or tv pilot. It doesn't "feel" like a season box set, not even one of those "slimline" ones.

I know companies have been cutting back the effort they put into producing physical media for years, but it's still sad to see. Right now the TCW season 1 set is sitting on my bed next to my extended edition LotR box-sets, and the difference is glaring. The old LotR sets are designed to look like old books, with Fellowship even having some fake wear to give them atmosphere. It just feels like no one puts any effort into the presentation of the DVD's i'm buying anymore.