"you said you'd ban me last" "i lied"
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I don't know. I may have to get a lawyer who specializes in SSI.timmy wrote:Is that going to cause complications?
SSD. SSI is a different thing altogether.Negative Knub wrote:I don't know. I may have to get a lawyer who specializes in SSI.timmy wrote:Is that going to cause complications?
I was given an SSI application. This will be a waste of time. I'l likely have graduated and started a teaching job by the time I'm approved if I am at all.Flagg wrote:SSD. SSI is a different thing altogether.Negative Knub wrote:I don't know. I may have to get a lawyer who specializes in SSI.timmy wrote:Is that going to cause complications?
You should have both.Negative Knub wrote:I was given an SSI application. This will be a waste of time. I'l likely have graduated and started a teaching job by the time I'm approved if I am at all.Flagg wrote:SSD. SSI is a different thing altogether.Negative Knub wrote:I don't know. I may have to get a lawyer who specializes in SSI.timmy wrote:Is that going to cause complications?
me wrote:It's not really a question of if they offend me or not. It's more that such jokes (rape jokes, sexist jokes, etc...), even if they are made in good fun and without ill intentions, participate to a culture that validate those things.
See, rapist men (I don't know about rapist women) think that all men are inherently rapists, and that they (the other men) only posture as "good people" for the sake of social standing. When you do rape jokes, you validate them in their thoughts, support their worldview, and indirectly encourage them to be rapists.
I know it's really not a fun thing to think about, and I know saying such a thing makes me sound as a "no-fun-allowed" kind of guy, but really, I think rape jokes should be avoided.
With a bit of imagination, it's easy to find other things to joke about.
person 1 wrote:I'm on the fence about this.
There's a lot to dark humor, and I don't see it as something that should be outright avoided.
Your allegation makes roughly as much sense to me as a murderer seeing the popularity and theme of most of the video game industry and deciding that killing someone can't really be that bad.
Most potential rapists are messed up in the head, playing out fantasies in which the person they want to have sex with is somehow okay with it, or don't really mean "no", etc. They don't see themselves as raping.
Serial rapists are pretty infrequent... though, due to their lack of a significant connection to the victim (after all, most people who are raped DO know their rapist), they're also less likely to be caught.
It's a complicated issue and while I don't think people should make light of rape, I don't think people should be censored if such jokes are told in the "right" setting, where no one can confuse their intent to simply relay a sort of shock humor.
...I dunno. I just dunno about this one.
Edit:
That said, I do find Molestia fairly amusing (even though I only occasionally check it), and never really thought to be offended by it.
person 2 wrote:....Eh, sorry, but I'm inclined to disagree.
People sling around jokes about violence and murder all the time. It's far, far less controversial to make a joke about maiming or killing someone than it is to make a joke about raping someone. Looking at most media, you'd think murder was just a fact of life but rape involves first selling your soul to Satan. No one ever argues that murderers are encouraged or validated by murder jokes.
Plus....the folks we're talking about are rapists. I don't think everyone standing in a circle, holding hands and singing songs about how rape is bad is going to prevent them from rapin' away at folks, and they're going to keep on rapin' whether or not they're 'validated' or 'encouraged' by a joke they heard online. By definition, they don't care that they're thought of as monsters, or no matter how many 'movements' that Internet Badasses try to put together.
person 3 wrote:I think only persons with lack of humour could be offended by Ask Molestia tumblr <.<
person 2 wrote:Re-posting this, as I think it got missed....Eh, sorry, but I'm inclined to disagree.
People sling around jokes about violence and murder all the time. It's far, far less controversial to make a joke about maiming or killing someone than it is to make a joke about raping someone. Looking at most media, you'd think murder was just a fact of life but rape involves first selling your soul to Satan. No one ever argues that murderers are encouraged or validated by murder jokes.
Plus....the folks we're talking about are rapists. I don't think everyone standing in a circle, holding hands and singing songs about how rape is bad is going to prevent them from rapin' away at folks, and they're going to keep on rapin' whether or not they're 'validated' or 'encouraged' by a joke they heard online. By definition, they don't care that they're thought of as monsters, or no matter how many 'movements' that Internet Badasses try to put together.
me wrote:No, I did not miss it.
But heh, if you decide to see me as the "Thought Police", then so be it.
I'm not going to go on a crusade, I'm not going to hit you over the head.
But I'll still stand by this position, and avoid joking on certain subjects when I think it shouldn't be joked upon. And when I'll hear a joke like that, I'll just say one thing : "dude, not funny". No more, no less.
Simple as that.
person 2 wrote:I'm not trying to accuse you of being "Thought Police" or anything similar. I'm simply stating that the 'serial rapists' that you've been mentioning aren't going to care one little bit about how grumpy people get with them, or how many jokes people tell. They're the sort of people that like seeing someone beneath them screaming and crying in pain and humiliation; they'll be fucked up no matter how many picket signs we make.
me wrote:Of course.
But the idea, basically, is to change the way we think, as a society, in such a way that people never begin to think that way.
So, really, "Though Police".
Of course, it's not going to be as simple as "not telling rape jokes". It will require far more efforts, in a much broader scopes, and will intersect with a lot of other issues such as sexism, classism, racism, etc...
However, I think we can agree it's for a good cause ?
And, heh, it's an easy start, no ? To avoid telling some jokes, even if we may find them funny ?
person 2 wrote:Eh, this may make me sound like some sort of paranoid type living in a bunker in the woods, but I'm really not a fan of concerted efforts to eliminate entire concepts from human thought, no matter how good the cause is when it starts.
person 3 wrote:Well, for example Russian internet is censored by government 'for good cause', protecting kids from information (read 'propaganda') of suicide, drugs, homosexualism.
It's all under banner of 'good cause' and forced on everyone.
Maybe we should just drop this topic?
to add on to this, consider prison rape jokes, where the point is that the person being joked about is going to be sexually assaulted and brutalized, and this is funny. that is, sexual assault is at once a horrifying and traumatic event, something that people you don't like should be subjected to, and a gigantic joke! it's basically a product of a twisted mentality, but this altered mentality is so prevalent people treat it as completely normal, and so this paradox becomes normal. douglas hofstader wrote a fairly thought-provoking article about what happens if you change neutral masculinity to neutral whiteness, and made a point about rewiring our thinking to remove sexism. shit like this is a prime example of faulty thinking that has to be changed.Infinity Biscuit wrote:The difference between jokes about murder and jokes about rape is that people don't try to pass off murdering someone as not really killing them but regular people to this day think that if the person isn't actively resisting then it's not rape.
Requiring active, enthusiastic, ongoing consent for sexual relations gets your view thrown aside as paranoid self-victimising paranoid delusions from most guys. If the bar were that deep in shit for murder, then I don't think you'd have people as comfortable with those kind of jokes, either.
And honestly, there actually are some situations where murder isn't taken as seriously (for example, when it happens to foreigners, homeless people, people of colour, some minorities, whatever) and where joking about it is also a shitty thing to do. Any societal ill that is not taken seriously in general should not be joked about, because that just makes it even harder for it to happen.
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.Infinity Biscuit wrote:And no I don't have any hard science correlations here or whatever but please have your question there have just been curiosity and not you being that guy :L
occasional trolling aside, I think we're both reading from the same hymnbook on this kind of thing. I follow the logic perfectly well & it makes sense to me. It would be nice if I could throw some science at people over the internet, though -- more for the general 'free speech etc' guys than the hardcore MRA guys.Infinity Biscuit wrote:And no I don't have any hard science correlations here or whatever but please have your question there have just been curiosity and not you being that guy :L
Good for her.