Testing Chat IV: A New Hope

[adr]

you could combine that with the rfid i suppose. put your password on the chip, and the activator in the card, on the pinch thing

so you'd hold the card in your chipped hand and pinch the activator area on the smartcard. that turns the rfid chip on (assuming for a moment we figure out how the activator circuit works) and transmits your password to the card

this could still be vulnerable to the same kind of "over the shoulder" interception by someone with a nearby scanner, unless the injected chip can do encryption too, and methinks that might be too much to ask; increases the possibility of technical difficulties requiring its removal and we def want to avoid that

but it is better than needing two fallible chips implanted, and less prone to forgetting the password



but me, i don't like injections, i'd prefer to just use the keypad, and i think the SSN precedent shows most of us can prolly memorize it without a whole lot of trouble anyway


and there's still the question of trusted UI to authorize the specific transaction. i'm sure this can be done on a credit card but it could get pretty expensive and increase odds of failure, which opens up an attack vector by running a fake warranty service

[RyanThunder]

http://www.mediatrainingtoronto.com/blo ... -the-world

Saw this list on SB.com.

I take issue with number 49.

We may have birthed the fucker, but you're the ones that started throwing his shit everywhere.

[Darksi4190]

Then clearly we must join forces to destroy the monster we have both created.

[adr]

ok last post for a while i promise

but let's think about a case study. one of the few things i use my SSN for is credit checks when getting bank loans or insurance policies, so let's look at how it is done now and how it would be done with the smartcard

now: i get an offer in the mail / go to a bank and apply for the loan. i either fill out a paper or an online form, or tell the banker over the phone, various identifying information

they take this to get a credit report from the credit agencies. if this is good, they give me the policy or credit card or whatever


then: i get an offer for a credit card in the mail. asking for info on a paper form is useless (perhaps even illegal, to discourage phishers and/or break the habit of the bankers), so to complete the application i'd have to go online

their website would ask me to authorize a credit check with my smartcard. i hit ok and it bluetooths (or whatever) the request to it, and its miniature confirmation screen (god this smartcard is going to cost like $500 a piece*) says "CREDIT BANK, INC. WANTS TO SEE YOUR CREDIT REPORT. OK? YES/NO"

i say yes and punch in my password on its miniature keypad. it generates a one time use only access key and sends it back to the bank over the internet. it is only usable by them - they sent me a public key to encrypt the request, so only with their own private key is it readable

and ditto to the credit agency - after credit bank decrypts it, it is still encrypted with credit bank's public key, to ensure a man in the middle doesn't hijack it


anyway after it is used, this key expires, but now the bank has my credit report. this would give only the specific information there, and may generic stuff like my real name, though that is even optional



now the bank looks at it and says "you have good credit. here take our credit card." the credit card is again keyed to these encryption pairs - mine and the bank's. not to my own ID number though, it is more like "issue the credit card to the same person to whom this credit report access key belongs"; it is semi-anonymous

and boom.


so next thing: suppose I don't pay my bill and credit bank wants to sue me. since they don't id me per se, they would file the lawsuit against the person to whom this key belongs. they prolly have my name and address to send the bill to, so a process server shows up at my door and says here you go


but what if i say "it wasn't me"? could the bank somehow prove that it was? well, the court could require me to produce my ID card and enter my password, but say i refuse or tell them i lost it, or whatever

the plantiff can't prove it was me for sure, so they don't get the judgment, but they still have some recourse: 1) if i swore under oath my ID was stolen, the government might then turn it off (surely after trying to alert 'me' just in case i was a fraudster trying to deactivate that id code maliciously). what an enormous hassle for me to rebuild my credit, etc., just to get out of this bill, so that's a nuclear option.

and 2) part of the credit card thing would be an access key for them to file a negative credit report about me. not me-me, but "the credit report to whom the credit card is issued" - semi-anonymously, enough for accountability but not necessarily anything more

so they'd eat this loss, but ruin my credit, making it unlikely to happen in the future

* BTW if the hardware fails, we don't want to reset the whole identity, but there's an easy solution: the private key is on a sim card kind of thing. the rest of the card is interchangeable generic hardware.



so yeah i think that's workable, though expensive, especially to change all the processes the banks use now aside from the hardware

[Losonti Tokash]

lol metahive is so close to admitting he's antidemocratic and white supremacist

[Oxymoron]

link to relevant post / thread ?

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

He probably means this:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 2&t=158863


Actually the thing that really stands out for me about that is that you can replace 'Liberal' and 'Conservative' or 'Democrat' and 'Republican' with 'Star Wars' and 'Star Trek' and the arguments and mentality would sound suspiciously similar.

[evilsoup]

that thread just makes me wish simon_jester was over here, he's so reasonable

[Losonti Tokash]

Well the really egregious stuff is in the Zimmerman thread but that's certainly part of it.

Mostly what gets me is they'd use the exact same rhetoric and tactics as the Republicans if it was the other way around, but can't admit it. The closest they get while raging about how unjust it is is when they say it's different because it's an issue they support.

Past that, though, I'm done with the thread. Trying to even read Metahive is exhausting, let alone carrying on an invisible half of a conversation.

[evilsoup]

Past that, though, I'm done with the thread. Trying to even read Metahive is exhausting, let alone carrying on an invisible half of a conversation.

Textbook ad-hominem -1 point

[RyanThunder]

Mostly what gets me is they'd use the exact same rhetoric and tactics as the Republicans if it was the other way around, but can't admit it.

So what if they would?

[Oxymoron]

that thread just makes me wish simon_jester was over here, he's so reasonable

Do you know how difficult it was for me to bring Connor here ? Good luck doing the same with Simon !

[Losonti Tokash]

Mostly what gets me is they'd use the exact same rhetoric and tactics as the Republicans if it was the other way around, but can't admit it.

So what if they would?

So admit it? Don't pretend to be ardent defenders of democracy if what they really want is just a government that agrees with them all the time. If it was the exact opposite and a republican legislator had filibustered a bill guaranteeing abortion rights in the state, I would certainly expect a Democratic governor to do anything within their power to pass it anyway. Knowing that, I can hardly call Perry an enemy of democracy and traitor to the state.

Even though he totally is, of course.

[Infinity Biscuit]

I thought Simon already was over here. With the account name Pieman or something like that?

Well the really egregious stuff is in the Zimmerman thread

One thing I'm really glad I managed to disengage from early from cultures like SD.net's: that sort of chauvinistic "progressivism" that ends up being almost as bigoted as the same kind of reactionaries they claim to be so different from.

[Losonti Tokash]

That's the sort of stuff Questor was talking about when he said their problem was nationalism. Even if they don't think of it as such, it's abundantly clear that the limit of their worldview is "my country does it like this, everyone that does it different is inferior and scum."

Also, languages only count if they have a standardized written form. Even if that was true, not dumb as hell, and didn't erase basically every language ever, AAVE is instantly recognizable when written.

[RyanThunder]

So admit it? Don't pretend to be ardent defenders of democracy if what they really want is just a government that agrees with them all the time.

Fair enough. Just wondering.

If it was the exact opposite and a republican legislator had filibustered a bill guaranteeing abortion rights in the state, I would certainly expect a Democratic governor to do anything within their power to pass it anyway. Knowing that, I can hardly call Perry an enemy of democracy and traitor to the state.

Even though he totally is, of course.

Of course he is lol

Also, languages only count if they have a standardized written form. Even if that was true, not dumb as hell, and didn't erase basically every language ever, AAVE is instantly recognizable when written.

That isn't standardized though

[evilsoup]

I thought Simon already was over here. With the account name Pieman or something like that?

We actually don't know who that was for sure, but yeah pieman did have a very similar posting style, I forgot about that

[thejester]

man I think Metahive is Top 10 biggest fuckwits on the planet but that broader philosophical point of the will of the majority vs what is right is a pretty tricky one

[thejester]

I thought Simon already was over here. With the account name Pieman or something like that?

We actually don't know who that was for sure, but yeah pieman did have a very similar posting style, I forgot about that

of course it was him

note how he stopped posting here after a string of 'fuck i hate Simon Jester' posts from Fanboy

[evilsoup]

mang I can't remember that far back
that's unfortunate, though

[Losonti Tokash]

man I think Metahive is Top 10 biggest fuckwits on the planet but that broader philosophical point of the will of the majority vs what is right is a pretty tricky one

Yeah, but when you define "what is right" to mean "things I like," and damn the consequences, it's a bit different. I'm not kidding when I compare those guys to Freepers, they're only separated by their stances on some issues. There's the same lack of self awareness, us-or-them mentality, and total lack of respect for the values they claim to hold.

[adr]

i just saw a picture on the facebook that made me lol

"Ed Snowden should seek asylum in the only place beyond the reach of US law enforcement...

WALL ST"

[adr]

on that topic i hope he tries France for real

i'm kinda a francophile this time of year and the french government is saying things about being angry about the spying so hey maybe they'll actually say yes

[thejester]

man I think Metahive is Top 10 biggest fuckwits on the planet but that broader philosophical point of the will of the majority vs what is right is a pretty tricky one

Yeah, but when you define "what is right" to mean "things I like," and damn the consequences, it's a bit different. I'm not kidding when I compare those guys to Freepers, they're only separated by their stances on some issues. There's the same lack of self awareness, us-or-them mentality, and total lack of respect for the values they claim to hold.

yeah totally, and that's always been a pretty massive part of SDN

[thejester]

on that topic i hope he tries France for real

i'm kinda a francophile this time of year and the french government is saying things about being angry about the spying so hey maybe they'll actually say yes

the irony of that would blow my mind