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Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:12 pm
by Aaron
Pardon?
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:14 pm
by Darksi4190
I think he's talking about how there's waaaaaay too much focus on the Second Amendment in American political discourse.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:14 pm
by Oxymoron
Darksi got it
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:15 pm
by Aaron
Oh totally. Makes a good distraction though.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:17 pm
by Darksi4190
what really bugs me is how we hardly see any focus on certain aspects of the first amendment anymore. Every year the press gets more and more in bed with corporations and the establishment, and no one's doing anything about it.
I mean I know there are still some independent blogs and news organizations that still do real journalism, but they don't get nearly the kind of circulation required to off-set the narrative set by the mass media.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:19 pm
by Oxymoron
@ Aaron : Yeah, but I still find it strange that, from a distance, you have all these guys -not politicians, normal people- who yell and screech at the Government about them not respecting the constitution
when the whole War on Terror and the systematic discrimination against a large fringe of the population is, I'm pretty sure of it, against the Spirit of the Constitution if not the Letter.
And not even talking about the whole healthcare / wealth inequalities thing.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:20 pm
by Darksi4190
Take that NYtimes article for instance, reporting that a "Saudi Arabian" had been detained by police in connection with the bombing. It's already been proven bullshit, but since it was the first article to actually establish a possible culprit then some people will have already made up their minds that it was "teh arabs" who were responsible, and even if a suspect is caught and convicted, there will always be some people who cry "conspiracy" if it isn't an evil middle easterner.
If there were any kind of justice the NYtimes would be fined or shut down for shoddy journalism for going with that.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:22 pm
by thejester
are you seriously debating over who was responsible already
what the fuck is wrong with you
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:24 pm
by Bakustra
Darksi4190 wrote:what really bugs me is how we hardly see any focus on certain aspects of the first amendment anymore. Every year the press gets more and more in bed with corporations and the establishment, and no one's doing anything about it.
I mean I know there are still some independent blogs and news organizations that still do real journalism, but they don't get nearly the kind of circulation required to off-set the narrative set by the mass media.
Or, for that matter, freedom of assembly.
Funnily enough, the death of newspapers will mean the death of news. Most reporting is done by newspaper reporters, it's then picked up by Reuters or the AP, and then TV gets ahold of it and uses it. Nobody is currently working to fix this model, probably because the press are largely controlled by idiots that have no clue how the business works, and an unhallowed amount of the rest is Rupert Murdoch and company.
Darksi4190 wrote:Take that NYtimes article for instance, reporting that a "Saudi Arabian" had been detained by police in connection with the bombing. It's already been proven bullshit, but since it was the first article to actually establish a possible culprit then some people will have already made up their minds that it was "teh arabs" who were responsible, and even if a suspect is caught and convicted, there will always be some people who cry "conspiracy" if it isn't an evil middle easterner.
If there were any kind of justice the NYtimes would be fined or shut down for shoddy journalism for going with that.
That was the Post, and they're a goddamned Murdoch rag.
Oxymoron wrote:@ Aaron : Yeah, but I still find it strange that, from a distance, you have all these guys -not politicians, normal people- who yell and screech at the Government about them not respecting the constitution
when the whole War on Terror and the systematic discrimination against a large fringe of the population is, I'm pretty sure of it, against the Spirit of the Constitution if not the Letter.
And not even talking about the whole healthcare / wealth inequalities thing.
Most people don't know how to interpret the Constitution. Our civics education is dire, so people don't understand what the totality of the document adds up to (see, for example, the misunderstanding of the Fourteenth Amendment allowing people to claim individual states can establish religion or how people obsess over the clause structure in the Second Amendment) or how judicial actions define the limits of the Constitution. In addition, most people view this sort of thing legalistically, so it's all about letter over spirit.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:49 pm
by Aaron
Oxymoron wrote:@ Aaron : Yeah, but I still find it strange that, from a distance, you have all these guys -not politicians, normal people- who yell and screech at the Government about them not respecting the constitution
when the whole War on Terror and the systematic discrimination against a large fringe of the population is, I'm pretty sure of it, against the Spirit of the Constitution if not the Letter.
And not even talking about the whole healthcare / wealth inequalities thing.
If the government doesn't respect it, then what good is it?
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:53 pm
by Oxymoron
As the saying goes : "Promises engage only those who believe in them"
but even then, the constitution is still promises for which millions have died.
That kind of things tend to hold a non-negligible weight in a discussion.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:55 pm
by Aaron
I'm sorry but you've lost me.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:58 pm
by Oxymoron
That if the Government doesn't respect the laws it has been elected to protect, then the democratic process will, one way or the other, ensure that either they are respected or those who violate the law will be thrown out of office.
At least, that's the theory.
edit : and that I seriously need to go to sleep
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:59 pm
by Darksi4190
And it's worked swimmingly so far.
If we had more viable political parties it might be workable, but until we see some kind of split in the republican/democrat dynamic, there's really no choice at all.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:28 am
by thejester
So, a friend of my girlfriend was running the marathon. We had dinner with him in February, he was pretty stoked about it - had qualified on the GC in one of the higher groups. His girlfriend went over with him...just got news they're both safe, but she was sitting in the place where the bombs went off an hour beforehand.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:32 am
by Aaron
Fuck me.
Thats, thats gonna linger a bit.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:38 am
by Count Chocula
Darksi4190 wrote:I have to admit, after seeing so much bullshit from right-wing extremists, I wouldn't object to seeing another Waco.
Yeah you and Flagg show some proof you slandering pissant little shit tips. Jump to conclusion much?
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:44 am
by Bakustra
Count Chocula wrote:Darksi4190 wrote:I have to admit, after seeing so much bullshit from right-wing extremists, I wouldn't object to seeing another Waco.
Yeah you and Flagg show some proof you slandering pissant little shit tips. Jump to conclusion much?
Please think before posting, and please don't put yourself in the position of defending Nazis. Thank you!
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:48 am
by Count Chocula
Please try to stay on topic and refrain from baseless offensive stereotyping. Thank you!
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:54 am
by Bakustra
Count Chocula wrote:Please try to stay on topic and refrain from baseless offensive stereotyping. Thank you!
Right-wing movements in the USA include actual neo-Nazis. These are the groups that are suspected/accused of planting bombs/shooting people when the phrase, "right-wing terrorists" is used. These are the groups that you are rushing to throw yourself in, for reasons that are probably not understandable by the human brain. Also, the guy actually apologized, so you didn't even read things all the way through before your temper rose like an old man from the bath and you started postin'.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:06 am
by Count Chocula
Bakustra wrote:Count Chocula wrote:Please try to stay on topic and refrain from baseless offensive stereotyping. Thank you!
Right-wing movements in the USA include actual neo-Nazis. These are the groups that are suspected/accused of planting bombs/shooting people when the phrase, "right-wing terrorists" is used. These are the groups that you are rushing to throw yourself in, for reasons that are probably not understandable by the human brain. Also, the guy actually apologized, so you didn't even read things all the way through before your temper rose like an old man from the bath and you started postin'.
No proof any particular group did it, so please stop jumping to conclusions. You're just making an ass of yourself.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:13 am
by Losonti Tokash
please just cut it out, thanks
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:49 am
by Oxymoron
I'll have to agree with Chocs on that one :
It would be best if everyone refrained from jumping to conclusions just yet. We've had our two hours of shock with its cohort of baseless speculations, now it's probably better to wait for further, official informations before continuing the discussion.
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:08 am
by artemas
thejester wrote:are you seriously debating over who was responsible already
what the fuck is wrong with you
Re: The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:02 pm
by Flagg
Count Chocula wrote:Darksi4190 wrote:I have to admit, after seeing so much bullshit from right-wing extremists, I wouldn't object to seeing another Waco.
Yeah you and Flagg show some proof you slandering pissant little shit tips. Jump to conclusion much?
That right wing terrorists are cowardly fuckwits who drop bombs to kill children and run away? Like in Oklahoma City? Like in the Olympic bombing? At least most Islamic terrorists have the decency and bravery to kill themselves. The fact that this wasn't a suicide bombing speaks volumes. It also fits the RW shitheel MO. Lets also not forget that this happened near the anniversaries of Waco and the OKC bombing. So there is enough for supposition.