New Testingstan

Darksi4190 wrote:Let's be honest. the SDN style of "lol owned the newbie trektard" doesn't pose a problem when you're debating about something that on some level, everyone involved knows is meaningless. Everyone involved knows that the SF and Fantasy discussion threads are just a convenient and fun means of wasting time, with the exception of the occasional outright loon like DarkStar or Batman. You can call someone a fucking retard in a Vs. debate and he'll shrug it off because to some extent everyone knows it's basically a game. When you take that same attitude into the n&p forum, and call someone a retard for a deeply personal political, social, or religious belief, it isn't a game, and that person is going to take it seriously. That's where the vendettas and feuds get started.

I think it does pose a problem, because it was where alot of the underlying 'culture' started. Alot of the habits and mindsets that create problems in N&P stem directly from the vs debating mentality - the 'Crush your opponent to win', the 'never back down or admit error because that's defeat', the 'pounce on any weakness and hammer your opponent mercilessly', I could go on. N&P was basically just an extension of the old VS stuff, Star wars vs Star trek dressed up in 'adult' topics.

I would also add that the simple fact is 'mockery of stupid people' is an inherently subjective concept but no one (not even myself really) ever treated it as such. We were confident that the RABID TREKKIES (which morphed into ANY TREKKIE) were wrong and we were right, and there was no latitutde for that. With alot of the resultant chest-thumping and trek bashing, how do you think the resident trekkies felt? I bet we could ask (for example) Stofsk or Redimperator for his view of it.

Ultimately 'mockery of stupid people' became paramount to SDN, but noone ever realized that 'stupidity' and 'holding a different viewpoint from mine' are not the same thing. And once you start flaming and harassing people for holding divergent views, you've killed off any ability for the board to grow and develop. The fact that 'weakness' was exploited and noone could ever make (or admit to) a mistake only made it worse, becuase epeople learn from mistakes.

tl,dr: The creation of the n&p forum is what ultimately damned SDN. The style of discussion worked perfectly fine when people were just wasting time talking shit about their favorite franchises, but eventually those franchises either ended or stopped putting out quality material, and people started talking about shit that actually mattered to them. When that happened, the antagonistic style of discussion SDN had cultivated was bound to drive people off eventually.

Part of it was endemic to board culture even when it was JUST vs debating though. SDN is organized that it needed to have someone to attack to give it a purpose of sorts. When it was the ASVS days (or thereafter) it was other forums, rabid trekkies, etc. When that got tiresome, it turned to other warsies (the 'minimalists', Traviss, ec.) When that paled it was N&P stuff, attacking religion, the wrong political agenda, etc. (which STILL happens, I might add. N&P is still a shithole and I don't understand why anyone ever wastes time there. Its just needless frustration and antagonism.) And when that fails? The board turns on itself.

If N&P calcifed anything it was the attitude that things should be taken seriously, and that there were ABSOLUTE TRUTHS. Conflict and yelling was something SDN needed LESS of, not more. It needed more of tolerance.

I think an irony of this is that there's often a 'blame game' to play when it comes to 'why did SDN fail', much as there's a blame game when it comes ot trying to explain what the problem with America is. And for whatever odd reason, people don't want to think it was endemic to the way the board (or its culture) was set up. To change the problems, you have to change the culture.. but thats much harder than having an ENEMY to blame it on.

so yeah no way we're going to have enough money to get the yard seeded professionally now. The motor for our sump pump just died. We're basically going to have to run the hydraulic pump all night to keep water out of the basement. Replacing the sump will probably deplete our budget for "Home Repair" type stuff. Not to mention that the hydraulic pump is fucking loud as hell and I can't get to sleep.

evilsoup wrote:you'd have to go full-shock site to offend me, I mostly find your posts hilarious

They're meant to be.

The more I hear ya'll talk about the culture at SDN, the more I'm reminded of people who want "straight talk" from politicians, diplomats and so forth.

More to the point, I'm reminded of what happens when you get people who actually try to conduct negotiations and diplomacy in that manner and the fiasco that results.

I'm also reminded of the hostility I often encounter at the merest hint that I might not wholeheartedly support the Republicans and/or absolutely hate Democrat/liberals.

Polarization is not unusual when it comes ot a 'vs-oriented' mentality. Its not unlike sports rivalries in that respect, although it can engender some very bizarre views.

Darksi4190 wrote:I've been checking around on SDN, looking at profiles and such, and I have to wonder.

How many people are really left from the early days, I.E. 2002-2003? From what I can tell it's just me, Connor, Stark, and Batman, or at least they're the only ones who still post fairly regularly.

I feel like I don't "connect" with SDN the way that I used to. None of the guys I played in the old STGODs with or chatted with in the discussion threads for the best seasons of SG-1, SGA, and nBSG are still around. It feels like i'm the last one still living in the old neigborhood, where all my friends have moved away and all these new younger people have moved into their houses.

I still post... Sometimes... Rarely...

I prefer it here. Conversations are just better, and people think without delving into an echo-chamber. Usually, anyways. (I read the Whaling thread on SD.net recently and I realized that even though I had so much I wanted to say there was absolutely no use to get involved in that absolute clusterfuck of a shit-show that was going on, and no one I would have wanted to talk to.)


To add on to a thought, I don't think it was necessarily the debate-or-die mentality that drove the board culture there under. I think it was the constant bannings. When someone you disagree with hangs around and keeps contributing to conversations you develop coping mechanisms, you either ignore them or agree to disagree and have productive conversations, when you have the option to engage in groupthink, belittle their stupidity, and then instaban them you never have discourse rise above the most banal. See Bakustra's banning for that in action.

Based on a recent TEO post, Straha may be the greatest person ever.

Link ?

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 1#p3770971

i am thinking its this one

lol at that guy's "what the fuck is wrong with you".

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 2&t=158383

This is like the most efficient troll ever. breaking boards rules and being sorta racist in less than a dozen words.

trolling is an art, and a good trolling is like a fine wine - it has nothing to do with efficiency

What kind of rule would he have broken ?

He didn't post an article I guess.

evilsoup wrote:

Oxymoron wrote: Edit : image spoilered as to not offend Flagg

why would you ever not want to offend flagg?

I dunno, I must have Canadian blood


somewhere on my car's bumpers.

Oxymoron wrote:What kind of rule would he have broken ?

no article, no source was what i was thinking. which he could't provide for obvious reasons.

not really big rules tbf

I feel guilty for being so judgmental, but I'm starting to suspect that Xeelee may be deliberately trolling.

Yeah, just a bit.

your theory intriques me and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/bo ... d=all&_r=0

they closed down a bunch of towns around me

Well, it's pretty easy to troll SDN, all things considered.

I mean, they do half of the work themselves by getting their panties in a twist at the slightedt provocation.

we do not. how dare you.

QED, concession accepted

I did have an account on the old server but it doesn't seem to have carried over to the current server.

Glass Fort MacLeod wrote:SDN is organized that it needed to have someone to attack to give it a purpose of sorts.

Well I try but it's a thankless task. I tend towards parody for N&P both because it's more fun to write and because a serious position;
a) gets autodogmadogpiled by people desperate for some dyed in the wool conservatives to hate on
b) gets trivialised as trolling lol so funny fattnerds fundietards oh good don't have to think about it
c) will draw mod ire and PMed threats of banning regardless of whether you are being polite and citing statistics and your opponent is literally threatening to bash your skull in while howling class war slogans; disagree with Thanas/Nitram etc and you are always in the wrong.

Ultimately 'mockery of stupid people' became paramount to SDN, but noone ever realized that 'stupidity' and 'holding a different viewpoint from mine' are not the same thing.

Exactly, so for N&P mockery of socialists doesn't count and is autobadwrong becase 'stupid people' is 'anyone to the right of the mods (on any issue)'. HPCA avoids the trouble of engaging with even slight disagreement by assuming all opponents are mentally ill, SDN reserves that for more extreme cases but applies 'must be a troll' liberally instead.

Part of it was endemic to board culture even when it was JUST vs debating though.

It wasn't just that. The really early threads in SDN are chock full of casual roleplaying, which can be really fun and certainly a lot of people on SDN circa 2003-5 had a blast with it. Over time it got more confined to STGODs and then stopped. The former SDN poster I most miss, by far, is Shroom for that reason (well, and his mastery of parody neologisms ).

Hey SG, nice to see you here.

A head's up, you're probably going to get dogpiled in 3... 2... 1...