The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting

[adr]

greenwald talked about it too http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ada-rights

to summarize: the public safety exception wasn't a good idea in the first place, the Obama admin is going nuts with the definition of "imminent" again, and this shit is nothing new from the us government

BTW something I mentioned a while ago in this thread but still really bugs me is ppl calling it terrorism. even the ppl saying he should be treated as other criminals are saying he should be tried in a federal court

but the crime he is accused of is a state level crime: murder on the boston streets. most other alleged murderers would be handled by a state court not a federal court. the terrorism accusations are totally unsubstantiated at this point and if you ask me a totally bullshit charge anyway, the crime of murder is plenty enough. I see greenwald added an update to talk about this too so that should be interesting

[Losonti Tokash]

do you think hate crimes should just be covered by murder/assault/etc

shit the guy still has all his rights anyway and basically can't get prosecuted for anything he "says"

[Aaron]

Depends. Is this hate crime going to be used as justification for a further crackdown on rights?

If yes, then slap him with multiple murder/attempted murder charges and lock him up for life.

[evilsoup]

will the stuff he says to them be able to be used against him in court? If not, I don't see a problem.

BTW something I mentioned a while ago in this thread but still really bugs me is ppl calling it terrorism. even the ppl saying he should be treated as other criminals are saying he should be tried in a federal court

oh come on
he set off several bombs to indiscriminately kill people

but mang, I feel really sorry for his parents. I heard them on the news the other day and they were all 'no, they can't possibly have done this, it must be a lie or a mistake'.

[Infinity Biscuit]

Isn't terrorism designated for its goal rather than the methods? If they went on a murder spree without political motivation, wouldn't it just be spree murder, regardless of the use of bombs?

[adr]

he set off several bombs to indiscriminately kill people

under us law, terrorism is specifically when the motive is political. for all we know right now the perpetrator(s) were just psychos who did it for personal lulz, which legally isn't terrorism (even Obama warned of this early on, though his tune has since changed). calling it terrorism is prejudicial, not only on this specific crime, but with the lesser rights terrorists get nowadays

do you think hate crimes should just be covered by murder/assault/etc

there's a few important differences here

first, hate crime laws are a response to some specific problems in the real world: the justice system wasn't working right and this was an attempt to fix it. you've prolly heard of a gay basher or klansman getting away with it due to prejudiced juries. have you ever heard that with terrorism? nay, we're facing the opposite problem where "terrorists" are treated worse than more common defendants, and worse yet, terrorism charges/accusations are applied in an uneven way.

with hate crimes, the law was racist before, and the new legislation was trying to fix that. with terrorism, the law made the racism problem worse

secondly, the added charge is for an added undesirable element. in hate crimes that element is hate toward a group, which we can prolly agree isn't a desirable thing even if there is no crime.

but with terrorism, the added charge is because the motive is political... but political activism isn't bad in and of itself, nor is coercing the government - that's what elections are all about. so why does it make sense to add a criminal charge just because this element was present?

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

And then there's a thing that's really sad in hindsight,

is that when you read the Horus heresy books (at least the first one, the only I've read), you see that as much as they were warriors, the Space Marines where also originally intellectuals. They where super-human not only by their strength and reflex, but also by their intelligence and wisdom.

But the Horus Heresy proved to the leadership of the Imperium how dangerous it was to let Space Marines develop too much free will.

So since then, a large part of their training has been to completely remove most of what linked them to the rest of humanity, turning them into war machines, feeling no fear nor regrets, obeying orders and seeing emotions as a weakness to be crushed.


So much potential for good, wasted. And now there only remain war, unending.

The problem is much of the spinoff material in 40K is filtered through the perceptions of the game. Which is a wargame. Which has a very narrow focus and not much depth for theme. That's why I much prefer the novels and RPG material really, because the focus can go beyond 'killing stuff'. But for some authors (and fans) the wargame is pretty much all there is to it.

There's potential scope for writing Space MArines. The dehumanisation and brainwashing of superhuman child soldiers (This much was done with Spartans to some level in the Nylund and associated Halo novels, and was IMHO one of their stronger points.) You can play up the defenders of humanity or the builders. Or the inspirational figures (to give humanity a symbol with which to strive better.) Heck, human and Space marine interactions can also be explored quite a bit in ways other than 'stick chainsaw in gut' or 'act gruff and condescending to lesser human creature.'

In the Traitor Legion vein, there's lots of scope for exploration of the reasons why they rebel (not everything is or has to be LOL CHAOS.) and many of the better HH novels (esp ADB's) do a good job of exploring that.

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

In honor of the continuing debate about the death penalty on TEO:

It would be easier to argue such topics if they weren't weighed down by the inertia and bitterness accumulated from the countless prior attempts to argue over it.

[Oxymoron]

If there's one thing I hate more than nazies

it's DeviantArt Nazies

So much talent, wasted on drawing nazi propaganda...

[timmy]

*Snort*

Illinois nazis

*Shakes head*

[Oxymoron]

That was partly intended.

[evilsoup]

the Fire Warrior game (a seriously under-rated Halo clone) did have a really good line wrt human-space marines interaction (that you overhear as you're sneaking around)

Guardsman 1: *grumble grumble* space marines, they think they're better than us...
GUardsman 2: They are better than us, and don't you forget it!

[adr]

if any of yall were wondering what the song that plays at the beginning of every episode of Democracy Now! is i finally found it today

it is called "need to know" by the band "incognito"

i've been wondering that for months and just stumbled upon it

[Questor]

OK, so I've been at work with headphones on for the past 14 hours. Did anything interesting happen anywhere that wasn't related to Boston?

Other, of course, than the Lakers sucking? I may have been in my own world, but that world IS in southern california. You'd have to be dead to not know the lakers sucked.

EDIT: I feel the need to clarify, I don't care if it was interesting or not, if it's related to Boston, I don't care until after I get some sleep. Other stuff, I might care now.

[Aaron]

The RCMP "caught" a couple guys who might at some point have bombed a Via train.

[timmy]

I saw a Lakers sticker on the back of a car this afternoon, and we're practically on the other side of the world from L.A.

[Aaron]

I love the cars that are apparently held together by stickers (and rust).

[timmy]

This was a late model SUV in an affluent suburb, but I take your point.

[Oxymoron]

This seems relevant to a number of discussions we've had here.

[Questor]

This was a late model SUV in an affluent suburb, but I take your point.

It always is... It always is...

Lakers fans have become what is possibly the most obnoxious fanbase in the world. I actually found myself thinking, "Raiders fans aren't this annoying." the other day. Lakers fans are worse than DODGER FANS!

It's because the fanbase has shifted into the suburbs, but the fan behavior has - if anything - declined. There's nothing worse (from a sports fan perspective) than a middle aged executive who's decided that wearing a lakers cap is an excuse to indulge in the "thug life" he hears about in that "rap stuff." He has no controls on his behavior.

What's sad is that the laker fanbase USED to be pretty classy. I remember the '90s being very different. Before Kobe and Shaq.

[Oxymoron]

For Linux people :

A thought-provoking opinion piece regarding the involvement of corporations in the open-source world.

[adr]

this fucking blops game has the worst spawns I have ever seen

get shot
spawn on top a live grenade, instantly die
spawn under an airstrike, instantly die
spawn in the middle of another firefight, instantly die
spawn on the opposite side of the map from your teammates

fucking a, I was doing reasonably well and then lose five lives in ten seconds

[Djinnkitty83]

I've recently discovered this, it's like an endless font of misanthropy-fuel.

Edit: Ah hell, it was posted on TEO a day ago. Still, I got it from a source unrelated to the boards.

[Flagg]

That shit is just priceless.

[adr]

#wtfdidwedotothem

lol