Lament 3: Cry Hard With A Vengeance

[Flagg]

For the first time in years I engaged a creationist. It was a mistake. Requests for evidence denied. Problems with Origin of Species means evolution is completely wrong. Pointing out the flaws in Creationism (two creation stories, earth coming before the sun), etc ignored.

Arguing with a creationist is like punching a 10 foot thick wall of shit. Nothing gets accomplished beyond you being covered in shit.

[adr]

i recently posted this to the facebook and it is apropos here

troll alert!

"Human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals."

hmm, I would argue this is the case based on some literal Biblical knowledge. Consider the following:

* Human beings as we know them today are not quite the original spec: Adam was modified in the process of Eve's creation (see: Genesis 2:21-22).

* Noah lived for almost one thousand years (Genesis 9:29), after which time, human lifespan fell significantly. Human beings, as we know them today, have changed at least in this respect from Noah.

I guess the question is if we want to call Adam 1.0 or Noah an "earlier species of animal", so it is perhaps a bit of a semantics argument here... but I'd say there's been physical development of some sort documented in the book of Genesis.

[adr]

mang it seemed like such a longer comment on facebook. oh well

[adr]

(two creation stories, earth coming before the sun)

HERESY ALERT

That's not necessarily a problem... for one, does God's day have to be the same as an Earth day? Could be longer, could be shorter, he might jump around the timeline. In short, suppose He has a TARDIS....

Secondly, what if the account in Genesis is of the planning stage rather than the literal, physical execution? His goal was to create Earth, so that's the first thing recorded. Then he realizes light is going to be important and lets it be so. But if it is constant light, that's gonna be a pain, let's see about making a cycle of some sort.

But right now, the physical plan is fairly uniform. He wants to separate the darkness from the light, but there's no provision for it. So, to that end, he now decides to separate the earth from the heavens. Genesis 1:1 created the heaven and the earth, but 1:2 says the earth was without form, and that hasn't yet changed.

Now, in verse 7, he creates the (plan for the) firmament to clearly separate Earth from heaven - I say it is at this point that Earth, in planning, starts to take take shape. Again, this is still part of the sub-goal of separating light from darkness. We now get the spherical earth we know.

But, again, it is fairly uniform, and God wants land, so he realizes he has to mix things up a bit. Verse nine, he gathers the land up, rising the continent above sea level.


Now, excitedly (it was good!), God proceeds to populate the planned planet. Grasses, fruits, seeds, oh my! He's very happy with it, but then realizes he's gotta finish the whole light question. Right now, light exists Earth has a provision for some darkness, but to sustain the plants, the light is going to have to be a lot more concentrated at the points of interest.

So, just like taking the formless Earth and bringing it together, then introducing some non-uniformity, he takes the scattered energy and brings it together, with some necessary non-uniformity. And thus stars are formed (planned out). Naturally, he doesn't want to burn the Earth, so he puts the stars in the heavens, including a greater light right here, close enough to sustain life. (The moon also provides some light and surely other functions to assist with life, but it is itself not a star because that would defeat the idea of separating light from darkness.)

Now, verse 18, God's plan to separate the light from the darkness is complete: he's designed a system that will work toward the concrete goal of supporting plant life. And it was good.


With this working, he turns his attention once again toward life and starts to plan out animals, starting with the seas and moving on to the land, plotting out the basic idea of the reproductive system to keep the earth inhabited. Probably introducing some genetic mutations into the plan too. God smiles upon evolution as it allows his wish to fill the waters in the seas to continue to come to pass even as conditions change.


Now, everything is set up for the coup de grace: to crown off the terraforming plan, he planned to set up people in his own image. After an intense period of planning, he was very pleased. This is going to work. And it came to pass that the plan, now being in motion, would take care of itself, so God took a day off.


edit: lol i wrote 'light' almost every time i meant to say 'life'

[Flagg]

You know, I once told Stark ADR couldn't possibly be any more of an annoying piece of shit. I was wrong. I WAS WRONG!

[adr]

i never faced much religious persecution as an atheist

but now as a christian it just never stops coming

won't you atheists please just leave us christians alone

PS end the war... on christmas.

[adr]

speaking of leaving people alone, did you know it is part of LDS teachings that people who didn't have a chance to accept the gospel in this life will have a chance to accept it in the next?

...guess how they get to learn about it: MISSIONARIES IN THE AFTERLIFE!!!!!!


so you know what i said a while ago about mormons not really believing in ppl going to hell? depending on how you feel about missionaries knocking on your door you might disagree lolololololol

[Flagg]

i never faced much religious persecution as an atheist

but now as a christian it just never stops coming

won't you atheists please just leave us christians alone

PS end the war... on christmas.

Ever since you started with this Mormon idiocy it's all you've talked about and like a typical evangelizer you keep trying to shove it down everyone's throat. So maybe you shouldn't be surprised at the backlash?

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Sun is needed for vegetation, ADR. QED.

[Flagg]

Sun is needed for vegetation, ADR. QED.

You have one punching hand, do you really want it covered in shit?

[Phantasee]

Sun is needed for vegetation, ADR. QED.

You have one punching hand, do you really want it covered in shit?

[Darksi4190]

I still can't tell if he's being serious with this Mormon shit. I mean he actually knows some stuff about their beliefs and practices, so if it's a troll job, he's done a lot of preparation work for it.

Not sure what that says about him, but I don't think its flattering.

[Flagg]

I still can't tell if he's being serious with this Mormon shit. I mean he actually knows some stuff about their beliefs and practices, so if it's a troll job, he's done a lot of preparation work for it.

Not sure what that says about him, but I don't think its flattering.

Does it matter? Either way it's more annoying than that time I did a Family Guy cutaway reference.

[Dude]

Great, so theres no end to obnoxious door knockers in this life or the next?

[Flagg]

Great, so theres no end to obnoxious door knockers in this life or the next?

I have on my front door in huge letters "NO SOLICITING". Christian evangelicals apparently don't believe this applies to them... I'm gonna get some extra letters that say "ESPECIALLY CHRISTERS" if the stupid fuckers don't catch on.

[evilsoup]

man I feel like a dick for having such petty complaints
but god-damn, Kobo customer care is fucking shitty

[Flagg]

man I feel like a dick for having such petty complaints
but god-damn, Kobo customer care is fucking shitty

Dude, it's all relative.

[Dude]

Great, so theres no end to obnoxious door knockers in this life or the next?

I have on my front door in huge letters "NO SOLICITING". Christian evangelicals apparently don't believe this applies to them... I'm gonna get some extra letters that say "ESPECIALLY CHRISTERS" if the stupid fuckers don't catch on.

Hopefully they are too lazy to come out here.

[adr]

Sun is needed for vegetation, ADR. QED.

yeah it's just that when I develop programs, jumping around from sub-goal to dependencies and back again is the way i do it and i think genesis 1 kinda sorta makes sense if you look at it like that

it is kinda like reconciling canon in vs debates. you can do a lot of it if you try but it sure can get pretty convoluted

I still can't tell if he's being serious with this Mormon shit.

one of god's commandments is not to bear false witness

Great, so theres no end to obnoxious door knockers in this life or the next?

you can die but you can't hide!!!!

I have on my front door in huge letters "NO SOLICITING".

A friend of mine has a sign that says "NO SOLICITORS" but I knocked anyway because I'm a barrister.

[Darksi4190]

Alright ADR, I got a question.

Is it true that Mormons can desecrate the memory of your loved ones by posthumously baptizing them in to their fucked up cult of sister-wives and child brides?

[adr]

taking sister-wives or child brides are very quick ways to get yourself excommunicated from the LDS church and have been for a hundred years.

now i'm aware of some of the shameful history there, and that some of that history is still written in the canon books, but it is really just that: history. you'd have a really, really hard time finding any mormon today who wouldn't condemn those practices (and indeed, even historically, there was a lot of dissent - including at least words from Joseph Smith himself - and the majority of mormons didn't actually do it)


that said, yes, there is a practice of baptism for the dead, but the rule is that they cannot be requested except by those with permission from direct relatives of the deceased (this has gotten stricter especially in the recent decade or so after some public controversy with people who are Jewish objecting to the performance of the ordinance on some victims of the shoah).

unless your loved ones are related to mormons, you have nothing to worry about

[evilsoup]

christ, that'd be a pretty epic family squabble

[Kryten]

(and indeed, even historically, there was a lot of dissent - including at least words from Joseph Smith himself

Given Smith himself married a 14-year-old girl, I somehow doubt that.

[Flagg]

Can we all just agree to ignore ADR and his ramblings about his pedophile cult?

[Straha]

i never faced much religious persecution as an atheist

but now as a christian it just never stops coming

won't you atheists please just leave us christians alone

PS end the war... on christmas.

SURPRISE, you're still an atheist:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=tABnznhzdIY

EDIT: Also, there are four Mormon creation stories. Not two.