New Testingstan

Thanks guys I'll write this all down and get to work on it

Glass Fort MacLeod wrote:Pegasus was good for the tension and the character development of Riker.. i always felt it was kinda a throwback to his development in Best of Both worlds with that whole 'examination of his loyalties' bit. It also adds a bit more to the darker side of the Federation (or at least of individual federation officers). I never cared quite for the 'utopia' angle quite so much and I always liked how TNG challenged that idea (from the Q to the internal political divisions and conflicts over things like Data or colonization or whatever.)

Too bad it was let down by the "status quo must be maintained" thing. I mean Picard tells Riker that he'll face some trouble over what happened but nope by the next episode it is never seen or heard from again.

Well that and being hijacked by These Are The Voyages but we don't talk about that...

You can blame the Status quo thing on the formulaic approach Trek had. I dont know if they could have maintained alot of the development they did and still had the show, but in isolation it was still quite good.

Serialization was still very uncommon when TNG was in production, plus generally actors were signed for multi-year contracts. If you write out Riker in the middle of the season you're still going to be paying for him for some time (whether expressed in multiple episodes where he does not show up yet still receives a credit, or expressed in a lump sum as a contract termination penalty).

And several episodes of C-plots of sorting through the legal consequences doesn't honestly strike me as that compelling. Although, it's not like some of the B-plots of later TNG were that much more thrilling...

Yeah but Bill

The Drumhead worked

Of course they didn't really do that much of that kind of thing even on the more serialised shows like DS9. I mean how many times did Worf fuck up and Sisko promise there would be consequences? And where there any?

IIRC, Worf only really fucked up once - in 'Change of Heart' when he turned around to save Jadzia. And at the end of the episode, Sisko was like 'I'll be frank, Mr Worf. After today, I can't see you ever being offered a command of your own.' It wasn't up to Sisko, but he would know what Command would likely do. And for the rest of the series, Worf never advanced in rank or was offered anything for his career - and he ended up leaving Starfleet anyway to become Ambassador to the Klingon Empire didn't he?

There may have been other incidents in season four though, but I think those had more extenuating circumstances (like Sisko chewing Worf out for trying to kill his brother, which may have been the extent of it as far as anything going on his record goes; there was also the extradition trial to the Klingons when he was accused of blowing up a civilian transport, but he was exonerated there. Although Sisko still chewed him out for essentially not checking his target, ultimately Sisko had to admit no harm was done as it was a clear setup).

I always felt that was poorly done.

We don't let spouses serve together for just this reason. But Sisko has to hand him a shit sandwich over a situation he never should have been placed in.

What was really bad, other than that because I agree with you, is that Jadzia ended up getting killed off anyway - had they known ahead of time, maybe that episode would have ended differently.

Because that would have been a more fitting death IMO than how she ended up dying. But you're right, that was a shit scenario and should have been canned.

Well he's always seen still in Starfleet Uniform after that. (of course 'after that' is just Nemesis) So I don't know if he actually had to leave Starfleet to take it up.

Yeah, Sons of Mogh and Rules Of Engagement were the big two I can think of.

Oddly apart from Waltz and First Contact. I can't remember any big moments with Worf in command of the Defiant. In the Dominion War he always seem to end up either as First officer or in command of one of Martok's Bird Of Prey. So maybe there really were consequences.


edit: As to Change of Heart itself, according to Memory Alpha, Terry Farrell actually suggested they should kill her off in that episode as it would make it a powerful moment for Word.

Here it is:

Memory Alpha wrote: ■After reading the script for this episode, Terry Farrell requested that Dax be killed now if she was going to be killed at all. At the time of production, she had already decided to leave the show following the end of season 6, as contract talks had failed to bring about a new contract for season 7, and she felt that having Worf complete the mission and leave Dax to die would create a very interesting character arc for him in the final season. According to Farrell, "I knew I wasn't coming back for the seventh season, so it was really written well, and it was the controversy of whether Worf should come back and save my life and not complete the mission, or complete the mission. But he decides to save his wife's life, and I remember thinking, 'Ah, this would be the perfect one to just end it'. I had asked not to be killed, but if you need to kill me because that's what you need to do, that would have been the perfect episode to do it because it would have been so much more for Worf's character to play in the long run, because he would have let his wife die, but completed the mission. Oh my God, what an awful thing to live with." (Crew Dossier: Jadzia Dax, DS9 Season 2 DVD special features) Jadzia was ultimately killed in the sixth season finale "Tears of the Prophets" by a Pah-wraith-possessed Gul Dukat.

Given another season, his feelings over failing both his wife and the mission may have been good TV.

Definitely.

That's very interesting to read, I didn't know that she had decided to leave at that point. Of course, IIRC she expressed some regret for leaving. I mean maybe being on a scifi tv show doesn't do wonders for you career, but I can't see working on a Ted Danson sitcom being any better.

It does get you a life time of adoration from fan and money from convention appearences though. (actually do they get paid for conventions?)

Yeah they get paid. Definitely.

Stofsk wrote:Definitely.

That's very interesting to read, I didn't know that she had decided to leave at that point. Of course, IIRC she expressed some regret for leaving. I mean maybe being on a scifi tv show doesn't do wonders for you career, but I can't see working on a Ted Danson sitcom being any better.

Becker was a great show.

uraniun235 wrote:And several episodes of C-plots of sorting through the legal consequences doesn't honestly strike me as that compelling. Although, it's not like some of the B-plots of later TNG were that much more thrilling...

An episode or two would have worked. Or heck even just mentioning it or tossing the Stardates a few months ahead or something.

Crazedwraith wrote:Of course they didn't really do that much of that kind of thing even on the more serialised shows like DS9. I mean how many times did Worf fuck up and Sisko promise there would be consequences? And where there any?

That's one thing I can give to nBSG: when Adama tossed someone in the brig or ordered a demotion it usually stuck for at least an episode or two.

remember that time apollo was a lawyer for a bunch of episodes

the fuck was that about

Well, his grandfather was a lawyer, so that makes sense.

look his dad's space dictator, apollo can do what he wants

when the show tried to convince us that the admiral's son was a new untainted hope like obama was when i seriously started questioning whether the writers of bsg understood their own show, or whether they had ever seen episodes of it

timmy wrote:Yeah but Bill

The Drumhead worked

The Drumhead is all about the presumption of guilt, the corruption of power, and the subversion of values in an alleged attempt to preserve those values. The tension of the episode, after the initial espionage plot is resolved, hinges on the witchhunt being unjust and immoral. Picard's decisions are an increasingly desperate attempt to defuse the situation with his own power and influence as Captain of the Enterprise, until he is forced to resort to challenging Norah Satie to a duel of rhetoric (a duel which she loses in part to illustrate just how far she's lost touch with what she thought were the values she championed, but also because it's time to wrap up the episode so let's let her stumble all over herself).


Riker's story is about the aftermath of the decisions of a young man who was confronted with the unenviable position of being told by a trusted authority figure (then-Captain Pressman) what the right thing to do was, when Riker was himself not yet sufficiently developed to correctly assess the veracity of that figure's claim. In Pegasus, Riker has the benefit of hindsight to guide him to the proper course of action, although he still struggles with an ingrained assumption towards an admiral's legitimacy and a personal respect and admiration for his first commanding officer.

This establishes plenty of tension for Pegasus, but the court proceedings would themselves lack much of that tension due to the long years of experience between his actions as an Ensign and his actions as a Commander, as well as the resignation of Riker to facing the consequences and the lessened (though still painful) impact of losing his career now; he may not have gotten as far as he wanted, but he had a great run, and he's tasted command enough to at least have known what it was like. Contrast with an eager and ambitious Ensign, anticipating years of service and a some-day command of his own, who would see the end of his career in Starfleet as a devastating blow to his hopes and dreams.

I think a story dealing with the tension of not yet knowing what the consequences of his actions will be would be far better suited to someone like Wesley Crusher - and, as I recall, we did have a similar such story in The First Duty, although a lot of that episode was tied up in the "what happened" mystery-detective plot.

True, but let's not forget what Riker had given up in order to pursue his career. There's always room for regret in a person's heart at life choices made and the doors that close the further along each branch of the path. Of course, canon crapped on that idea by allowing him to actually pick up his relationship with Deanna and have it both ways. Isn't that grand? It worked out for them in the end! Damn it.

I would've watched a couple episodes of Star Trek: JAG

Just sayin'

Gands wrote:Well, his grandfather was a lawyer, so that makes sense.

i am quite sure lawyering is not passed hereditarily