Movie/Books/Etc list

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Nope. It's all good.

Are recommendations limits to sci-fi? If not, I'd like to recommend Alien 3.

[Oxymoron]

Let just not turn this into a dumb list of "Stuff I Like" and it should be good.


Before I do anything to add Alien 3 to the list, what's it that motivate this recommendation ?

[adr-admin]

god damn it phpbb sucks so much

apparently that spoiler thing i copy pasted only works for short things

[evilsoup]

Guys. Come on. Chill out. This isn't TEO.

Melancholia is a really good film - it really affected me when I saw it, it was a painful experience. I sat in the cinema until the end of the credits, and so did everyone there, because of how draining it was.

It's beautiful, and deeply moving.

Man.

Sutherland's character is great: he tries hiding the incoming destruction with increasingly desperate and transparent methods. He's trying to protect his wife - that is what he tells himself, at least. What he is really doing is shielding himself from the truth, because if he puts it into words he'll have to confront it himself.

When it becomes clear that he cannot hide (from) the truth any longer, he kills himself rather than face up to it. SO you see, it isn't really misogynist at all.

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Guys. Come on. Chill out. This isn't TEO.

Melancholia is a really good film - it really affected me when I saw it, it was a painful experience. I sat in the cinema until the end of the credits, and so did everyone there, because of how draining it was.

It's beautiful, and deeply moving.

Man.

Sutherland's character is great: he tries hiding the incoming destruction with increasingly desperate and transparent methods. He's trying to protect his wife - that is what he tells himself, at least. What he is really doing is shielding himself from the truth, because if he puts it into words he'll have to confront it himself.
Mm
When it becomes clear that he cannot hide (from) the truth any longer, he kills himself rather than face up to it. SO you see, it isn't really misogynist at all.

Something happening to the male character doesn't dispell my claims of misogyny
As for Alien 3, check the thread at SDN in testing. I'm on my phone, so I don't have time to explain why it's good

[evilsoup]

OK.
Why do you think it's misogynist? The only character who is even close to having it together is Claire.

The character is maybe sexist, but I don't see where you can get it from that the film is misogynist.

[Oxymoron]

It got pruned, but I had read it before that.


Okay, i'm adding it.

[Agent Bert Macklin]

OK.
Why do you think it's misogynist? The only character who is even close to having it together is Claire.

The character is maybe sexist, but I don't see where you can get it from that the film is misogynist.

Read my post on the previous page.

[evilsoup]

but the planet does affect the male character, just in a different way. The film is pretty explicit that they're all suffering from different variations of depression.

[Darth Fanboy]

This is going to sound very TEO-ish but there is no way I could get into a film like that because of a lot of things.

[Oxymoron]

What kind of things ?

[evilsoup]

well as long as you're not saying you hate it because the scenes of melancholia crashing into earth were scientifically inaccurate, I think you're fine.

[Oxymoron]

so much for spoilers

[evilsoup]

that happens in the first ten minutes so

[Oxymoron]

don't worry, 1/ I don't care for spoilers 2/ I know full well this thread is going to be full of them, so -I- would be to blame anyway


as I don't really have time the motivation to watch films anyway it's the discussion themselves which interest me

[Agent Bert Macklin]

well as long as you're not saying you hate it because the scenes of melancholia crashing into earth were scientifically inaccurate, I think you're fine.

Nah. That shit is cool. Probably my favorite part of the movie. I like the opening too.

[Phantasee]

i think DF might mean some people wouldn't want to watch a movie about depressed people because of their own issues with depression and whatnot

or their own issues with pissing themselves in a wedding dress i'm not 100% on that

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Nietz, have you watched Tree of Life yet?

[Nietzslime]

Nietz, have you watched Tree of Life yet?

no

i want to, but it seems like a movie i should really try to watch on a big screen instead of my laptop

i have it downloaded and everything, maybe i should just call around friends to organize a viewing at someone's home theatre this week

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Nietz, have you watched Tree of Life yet?

no

i want to, but it seems like a movie i should really try to watch on a big screen instead of my laptop

i have it downloaded and everything, maybe i should just call around friends to organize a viewing at someone's home theatre this week

Yeah. It's looks good on Blu-ray.

[Agent Bert Macklin]

If anyone is still on the fence about seeing Tree of Life, I wrote a shitload about it. There are massive spoilers, so be warned.

[Shroom Man 777]

crying of lot 49 hurt my brain

[Nietzslime]

so i finally got around to watching the tree of life

it's hard just to say 'it was pretty good', because this is such an ambitious and singular movie

the acting is excellent, the film is gorgeous, and some of the imagery has an extraordinary power (the cosmic scenes are masterpieces on their own), and malick has a good cinematic eye for human emotion (the opening scenes showing the reaction to their sons' death are really, really good)

and i can say that i have never seen another film like it (the thing is reminds me most of apart from malick's stuff is synecdoche, new york, but that's a movie about the artistic drive to try to encompass creation and the meaning of it all in one piece of art, whereas this, uh, is that piece of art)

but it's a movie that kind of groans under its own weight; i don't want to sound like a philistine, but the '50s era childhood really did seem to go on forever until i checked my phone once or twice, and sean penn's role in the movie really is just to wander around several different locations looking contemplative, however evocative those locations are - and at some point, the excursions into the beauty of semi-rural texas just ceased to move me. it was very much of muchness, and since the movie never really let up from the solemnity and sanctity of it all, it didn't always hold my interest

one thing my brother noticed before me was the way that it accurately reflected the way that our memories re-construct events - there's no real dialogue and no real scenes as such, just people speaking the emotional content of the event to the camera or jack, before hopping to the next associated memory. and that's pretty cool

and normally i like malick's whispery pseudo-philosophical poetic narration quite a bit, but here, while it was good, it didn't resonate as strongly with me as it has - it didn't leave me entranced with the kind of lyrical moments i got from malick's own movies like the thin red line, and in the end, the picture didn't leave me blown away by its insights like synecdoche, new york did. this isn't actually a failing of the movie, since 'lacks amazing poetry that speaks directly to nua' is the most unfair criticism in the world, but i guess i came in with really high expectations

but i'm curious what tucker has written about it

[Agent Bert Macklin]

<snip Nietz's thoughs>

but i'm curious what tucker has written about it

Thanks for watching it, bro! I could not disagree with your views more. Here's the analysis from my Tumblr in spoiler tags. The analysis follows the Blu-ray chapters. The words in italics that begin some paragraphs are the chapter titles.

The Two Ways. The opening of the film pits two worldviews against one another: Grace and Nature. Grace is assigned to the mother and Nature has been assigned to the father. As we all know, the father opts for Nature and becomes this mean, angry, and envious man throughout the film. We also know that Malick paints the Mother in an angelic light: she’s kind, beautiful, empathetic, and caring. Let’s take a look at what she says in the opening:

Grace doesn’t try to please itself. Accepts being slighted, forgotten, disliked. Accepts insults and injuries. Nature only wants to please itself. Get others to please it too. Likes to lord it over them. To have its own way. It finds reasons to be unhappy when all the world is shining around it, when love is smiling through all things. [The nuns] taught us that no one who loves the way of grace ever comes to a bad end. I will be true to you. Whatever comes.

These statements are the backbone for the film. They are relevant throughout, especially the last three sentences. They speak to me in high volume, especially in regards to what the film says about it.

Grief. I have always seen Tree of Life as a meditation on life, death, and a crisis of faith that can be accompanied by experiencing death, whether directly or indirectly. This section of the film shows the way of Grace and the way of Nature dealing with the death of one of their sons, R.L. The mother is distraught. She’s questioning her faith. She wants to die to be with her son. Why is this happening to her? She has lived the way of grace and she is currently experiencing something she deems as unfair. “He was in God’s hands the whole time,” she says. “What did [God] gain?” she asks. In a scene that I find difficult to watch, a neighbor or relative is trying to rationalize R.L.’s death to her. The Mother has her memories of him but also has her other two children. That is not comforting to someone who is going through a terrible and tragic ordeal. It’s downright tactless. Having those memories and having her other children aren’t going to bring her son back.

The way of Nature is hit pretty hard as well. The father is looking back on how he treated his son,. How he criticized him for the most trivial of things. Death likes to do this. My recent brush with near-death was met the same way. I re-evaluated how I was treating someone. I looked at my vitriolic and hateful comments towards this person and realized that while I thought they were justified at the time, they weren’t, no matter how I was being treated. My reevaluation came back to bite me in the ass because this person didn’t change, but I still went through what Nature did here.

The City. The way of Nature is also assigned to the city. We see one of R.L.’s brothers, Jack, in the midst of a crisis of his own years after the tragic incident. These scenes are critical in understanding how Jack deals with his emotions and what happens at the end of the film. The death appears to haunt him because he hasn’t really faced it. He is still apologetic about the way he treated R.L., actions we see later. The various scenes here appear to support one theory that Jack is so overwhelmed by grief that he goes to drastic measures to alleviate it.

Creation. One of my favorite scenes and the most divisive among audiences takes place when the mother continues questioning her faith and why God allowed what he did. While she’s in the woods looking up towards the heavens, she cries “Lord. Why? Where were you? Did you know? Who are we to you? Answer me.” The response is nothing short of some of the most amazing work I’ve ever seen on screen. He created her. He created the universe that allows her and her family to exist. While I do not accept this notion personally, I still find it to be a haunting and illuminating answer to a question that many go through when they deal with tragedy. My own dealings with these questions were not about knowing someone who died, but instead in regards to all of the death on the planet. Why does God allow starving children? Why does he allow good people to die? Is this part of his plan? Are they supposed to die? These were the first questions I pondered before my fall from Grace.

Grief does a lot of things, and the grief theme is played into the creation sequence by way of the most spine-chilling song I have ever heard: Lacrimosa. The term “Lacrimosa” translates from Latinto English as “weeping.” The mother is weeping for her son and her creator is weeping for her. Many see this massive and intriguing break in the narrative to be completely unnecessary. I think this is vehemently shortsighted and the big picture isn’t being looked at. While the film says that God created us, it also states through this sequence that death has always been a part of life. The dinosaurs are symbolic. With life comes death.

Innocence. Jack is Now 12. With death comes life. Innocence is a part of life and when you are born, you cannot be corrupted by your surroundings. This can extend to early childhood as well because rationality is not a strong suit as this point in your life. Malick loves to put moments of uplifting positivity in his films. In Days of Heaven, in the midst of a swarm of depressing moments where the characters are starving and trying to find work, there is a scene where men are dancing. They are finding some pleasure in their existence. These little moments give a breath of fresh air to the ills, trials, and tribulations that drown us throughout our fleeting time on earth. Malick does the same in Tree of Life when we witness the birth of the mother’s three children. The symbolism may be heavy handed here, especially with the soon-to-be-born children being beckoned by Grace into the birthing canal and out through the underwater doorway that leads to life. I personally find it another instance of beauty in a film that keeps on giving.

Innocence does eventually turn to corruption, but that’s part of life’s experiences. We learn new things that we aren’t accustomed to and determine how to take them in. Jack’s birth is the beginning of a lifetime of turmoil that he endures, some because of his own doing. But we do get a glimpse of the innocence before things take a turn. He’s playing with his mother. He’s learning how to walk. He’s running around in the yard with not a single care in the world. Then new life enters his family. He doesn’t know what to make of this. He feels jealousy, but he doesn’t understand it. He looks upon in the baby with confusion and fascination. What is this before him?

Jack eventually grows up and has a wonderful time as a child until he begins to suffer at the hands of his unhappy father. The father is strict, ignores his son’s accomplishments, and regrets being a failed musician. He passes this regret onto his children. Parents tend to do this. They don’t want their children to fail like they did. But Jack’s father takes it to another level. It’s because of his treatment towards Jack that Jack sets up a dichotomy between his parents. He pleads “Mother. Make me good. Brave.” His father won’t because he hasn’t owned up to the fact that he has failed in the past and must move on.

Mother. Father. Jack and his brothers are beginning to see that things aren’t always on the bright side. They’re seeing old men, a crippled man, prisoners, and even the death of a fellow child. Their mother will not always be able to protect them from the world. She will not be able to shield them from the negative aspects that come with life. These experiences hit Jack the most. He’s also doing his best to remain in the state of Grace instead of turning to Nature like his father.

The regret on Jack’s father’s part is a sight to behold. As I said earlier, parents want their children to succeed where they failed. Some never had a chance to go to college so they want their children to go. Jack’s father offers some guidance: “Your mother’s naïve. It takes fierce will to get ahead in this world. If you’re good, people take advantage of you. […] Don’t let anyone tell you there’s anything you can’t do. Don’t’ do like I did. Promise me that.” The guidance is appropriate, but the way it’s demonstrated is not. The church service the family attends basically says this to the father. Misfortune falls on everyone. You can’t make sure your children will be happy.

Jack’s father is the epitome of those who believe in the American Dream. He sees what others have and he thinks that through hard work he can have it too. This is his corruption. He cares about status and material things. However, he eventually understands that this isn’t the case and has never been the case. “Wrong people go hungry, die. Wrong people get loved. The world lives by trickery. If you want to succeed you can’t be too good.” Jack’s relationship with his father echoes mine. The father takes all of his faults out on his children. He’s strict, abusive, anger-ridden, egotistical, and sarcastic. Jack sees the inconsistencies in his father’s parenting. He doesn’t follow the advice he gives. He insults people because he’s unhappy himself.

Drowning. Nature takes another deadly turn to please itself. Nature destroys the innocence of children by committing the ultimate act of corruption: death. The children see their first experience with death and it hits them hard because it involved a fellow child. Questions are asked, questions that should be asked. Why did God take this child? “Was he bad?” Will their mother die too? Where was God when the child drowned? “[He] let a boy die.” God lets anything happen, according to Jack. He let another child suffer burnings. DDT is sprayed all over the streets. The children play in it. Why should Jack be good, as he asks, if God isn’t?

Weeds. “Be Quiet.”. The strict parenting by the father culminates in a scene of abuse that is very difficult to watch. All of his frustration with the inability to strike it rich results in an outburst because R.L. is beginning to question his behavior. Why would you tell a child to not speak unless he has something important to say? Why would you treat a child like this? This is where the dichotomy between the mother and father comes to fruition. She does her best to protect them and he does his best to instill discipline in the wrong manner. She turns the children against him. He lacks the insight to see that he does it himself. An unhappy man, indeed!

Dad’s Away. Robert. Mrs. Kimball When an abusive parent disappears for a stretch of time, wondrous things can happen. A shroud of negativity can be lifted. You can be yourself. You can have fun. You don’t have to abide by the insane and inconsistent rules imposed by the parent. This scene is just as beautiful as the “innocence” chapter. The innocence is returning because one of the things that is corrupting the children has gone away. The mother is able to impart words of wisdom that counter the father’s: “Help each other. Love everyone. Every leaf. Every ray of light. Forgive.”

However, whatever wisdom and innocence you experience, something will come along and attempt to take that away. Sometimes it’s a fellow child who is angry at something and wants to spread that anger to others. I was this way, unfortunately. I was a troublemaker, a massive one. I suffered suspensions, dealt out verbal abuse toward classmates, and even engaged in property damage. I was Robert to a degree. I never hurt animals, but I was a piece of shit as a child.

What makes these chapters in the film significant is that they are the catalyst to Jack’s learning. How do you lean things when you don’t look? The neighborhood children tell Jack that you learn by looking. The parents do things they say you can’t do. They want to keep you ignorant of the world to protect you. Just look at how Jack sees that beautiful woman and what he does when he ventures into her house. He steels her clothing. He’s learning things about his sexuality, something that was probably rarely talked about in the home in Waco, Texas during the 1950s.

”I Trust You.” I Do What I Hate. Father Returns. BB Gun. All of adult Jack’s reflections on his childhood lead to this moment where he begins to mistreat others, particularly his mother and R.L. You can see why he can’t handle the death very well, decades after it has happened. He’s angry, rebellious, disrespectful, and downright mean to his mother. He thinks she lets his father run all over him. Why obey what someone he perceives to be weak? The parts of his father have rubbed off on him. He may have apologized to R.L., but it appears that it still haunts him well into adulthood.

Eternity. “I give him to you. I give you my son.” Accepting the tragedies that befall you is a part of life. It’s a sign of maturity. This chapter is a bookend to “Innocence.” We enter life through the watery womb and leave it in the decrepit and dry remnants of the earth. Where we go from there is the question. IS there an afterlife? Will we meet our loved ones there? Our friends? Our neighbors? Our enemies? Will our ill deeds be forgiven by them? Will we forgive ourselves? We may never know before it happens.

The Tree of Life is a film that will last through the decades. It mirrors life experiences that millions have likely endured, from dealing with death, blossoming sexuality, questioning your faith, to handling your emotional problems directly. It’s about corruption. It’s about family life. It’s about the American Dream. It’s about America as a whole. This is a film that resonates with me completely and I will never grow to dislike it. It is something special. Of all of Malick’s films I’ve seen, sans Badlands, I love this one the most. It will stand the test of time. I hope that in twenty years, more people will accept it and not see it as, put by an online acquaintance, a “pretentious piece of shit.”

Also, Synecdoche, New York is a good movie too.

[Nietzslime]

I don't think we really disagree about this one (horror of horrors), I just don't find that the film touches me as strongly as it did you. I think your analysis is pretty good and lines up with most of my thoughts about the meaning and purpose of its sections.