New Testingstan

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:I love that I got an official warning for using the report button to report two different offenses within the thread, and that this is "abuse" of it. Well, there goes trusting the staff/system! Hahahahaha. But I asked for clarification, so maybe it's something reasonable. Maybe.

Well it does look like they're putting zinegata's shit in the HoS for using the report button too much, but I can't go in there to see what else happened, so . . .eh.

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:I love that I got an official warning for using the report button to report two different offenses within the thread, and that this is "abuse" of it. Well, there goes trusting the staff/system! Hahahahaha. But I asked for clarification, so maybe it's something reasonable. Maybe.

It's always been to report shit like spam or kiddie porn. Which means it's pretty much useless.

Aaron wrote:

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:I love that I got an official warning for using the report button to report two different offenses within the thread, and that this is "abuse" of it. Well, there goes trusting the staff/system! Hahahahaha. But I asked for clarification, so maybe it's something reasonable. Maybe.

It's always been to report shit like spam or kiddie porn. Which means it's pretty much useless.

Sometimes they say it's for actual rules violations but the mod staff is so inconsistent who knows?

Zod wrote:Sometimes they say it's for actual rules violations but the mod staff is so inconsistent who knows?

It's almost like the rules never got revised after they where layed down in concrete at the founding the forum, despite the technical capablities of the forum software being massively updated over an 8-9 year period, the overall forum culture changing, the overall focus changing, and probably a few other things I'm not bothering about changing.

Well, I know that I've seen people that have been told to use the report button rather than backseat moderate.

Zod, here's Edi's post:

Edi wrote:Bakustra, Flagg, knock it off and stand down.

Zinegata: I don't know what the consequences for you are ultimately going to be, but at least one serious warning for completely unacceptable abuse of the report button, one warning for completely unacceptable behavior earlier in the thread where you accused everyone debating against you of shifting goalposts when nothing of the kind was happening and another warning for repeated Wall of Ignorance tactics. The subject matter of those last two warnings also seem to be your stock in trade in nearly every debate thread I've seen you "participate" in, though that participation more often than not has amounted to not much more than blatant trolling.

Take that under advisement and consider the probable consequences of drawing moderator attention with similar antics in the future.


EDIT: Bakustra, enjoy your own warning for similar abuse of the report button. I wouldn't have held hounding Zinegata against you all that much due to his behavior, but abuse of the report button on your end as well puts you right up there with him.

So maybe I'm being too harsh, but again, I've seen that being given as advice from moderators, so I really think that there needs to be some sort of coordination between moderators as to what's acceptable and what's not, because it seems likely that good ol' Edi takes things a bit more seriously than some of the other moderators do (for one thing, I've reported a post before without this sort of thing).

I'm just going to float the idea that Edi doesn't know what he's doing. Nor is there any direction from higher in regards to moderating.

xon wrote:

Zod wrote:Sometimes they say it's for actual rules violations but the mod staff is so inconsistent who knows?

It's almost like the rules never got revised when they where layed down at the founding the forum, despite the technical capablities of the forum software being massively updated over an 8-9 year period.

The rules were revised when the report functionality was added. It's just that they didn't want to use it for maximum effectiveness.

Also,

Dalton wrote:In all this bullshit you had one good point, one which I have sufficient authority to act upon, and that is the usage of the Report Button. The announcement about when to use said button is generally ignored anyway, but I'm authorizing that it be clarified. So yeah, Report away. You don't have to flood PM inboxes anymore. Hey, great idea. Maybe next time you have an idea you can suggest it to one of us or post a thread about it like Coyote instead of sulking in your hermit cave ranting about us evil, unapproachable mods.

EDIT: This would do me no good to bring up, though, so I'm not sure why I even bothered to look for it.

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:So maybe I'm being too harsh, but again, I've seen that being given as advice from moderators, so I really think that there needs to be some sort of coordination between moderators as to what's acceptable and what's not, because it seems likely that good ol' Edi takes things a bit more seriously than some of the other moderators do (for one thing, I've reported a post before without this sort of thing).

Nice to see TEO moderation has all the consistency of jello, without even the pretext of a proper process.

Aaron wrote:I'm just going to float the idea that Edi doesn't know what he's doing. Nor is there any direction from higher in regards to moderating.

TEO suffers from the significant disadvantage of lack of administrator staff who can actually hand out bans, a complete lack of automation in how publishments are handed out, and some really god damn dumb moderators who are only there because they where friends with Wong +10 years ago.

the report button is basically like calling 911 so it better be a fucking emergency

except the police is massively inept and will act out power fantasies on you for daring to disturb their donut-induced slumber

Zod wrote:although after looking it up i could almost get behind jainism as a religion

if nothing else they sound like one of the least offensive religions i've read about (don't think i could get into the whole 'don't eat meat' deal tho)

they are incredibly offensive

considering the shit those baby-killing vegans get

and the hatred for those dirty greenpeaceniks

imagine the explosion of sheer rage that would occur if knowledge of jains were widespread and one of appeared in a news story

i mean yeah fundies are annoying but at least they eat meat like god SCIENCE! intended!


but i love stas' "experience of suffering is what matters and therefore intelligent beings are more important" as if they are the same thing

sooooooooooooooooo let's cook up an hilarious hippotesticle

imagine you are in a burning building

in one room is a helpless child with huge pleading eyes full of tears

in another room is your computer running the smartest ai anyone ever did see that is more intelligent than fifty smart humans put together

you only have time to save one

WHAT WOULD KURZWEIL DO


alternatively, say SCIENCE! discovers tomorrow that plants or manimals are ten times more capable of experience suffering than humans but are very very dumb

WHAT NOW!


what if a huge alien takes over the world and feels that since it is so smart the dumbness of humans causes it great suffering

so it should be allowed to eat the humans right since humans to this alien are like cows are to humans

no no you cannot complain, the conclusions may be repulsive but it's better than gut feeling!

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:

xon wrote:

Zod wrote:Sometimes they say it's for actual rules violations but the mod staff is so inconsistent who knows?

It's almost like the rules never got revised when they where layed down at the founding the forum, despite the technical capablities of the forum software being massively updated over an 8-9 year period.

The rules were revised when the report functionality was added. It's just that they didn't want to use it for maximum effectiveness.

Also,

Dalton wrote:In all this bullshit you had one good point, one which I have sufficient authority to act upon, and that is the usage of the Report Button. The announcement about when to use said button is generally ignored anyway, but I'm authorizing that it be clarified. So yeah, Report away. You don't have to flood PM inboxes anymore. Hey, great idea. Maybe next time you have an idea you can suggest it to one of us or post a thread about it like Coyote instead of sulking in your hermit cave ranting about us evil, unapproachable mods.

EDIT: This would do me no good to bring up, though, so I'm not sure why I even bothered to look for it.

Fucking post it, hammer it home.

Maybe the reindeer fucker will get the idea?

Aaron wrote:SW has fostered this belief in me that she has no personality and can't act. I almost view her as a real doll but with a pulse.

well she did fuck and whine about fucking that guy from That's 70's Show in that one movie

there's that

Why would I do that, though? I don't want to piss him off or piss Dalton off by waving that in their faces and getting all lawyer-y, and besides, I actually like the guy. He was pretty nice via PM to me, so I'm not going to get all harsh on him, especially since he probably could have yelled at me more for some of the shit I pulled in the thread. Honestly, getting the chance to finally have confirmation that Simon hates me was probably worth the single warning, since I now know that all of his bloated replies to me conceal the weaksaucest of hatreds. So I think I'll handle this by PM or maybe with a thread or something, but even a thread would be pretty confrontational.

Hmm, apparently I was wrong. Supermoderators can ban people on sd.net, or so says the forum rules.

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:The rules were revised when the report functionality was added. It's just that they didn't want to use it for maximum effectiveness.

This post which RedImperator wrote back in 2008-10, compared to what Dalton said in 2011-03. Of course no actual policy update, because that requires effort and remembering to actually document what the rules for the plebs are.

Dooey Jo wrote:the report button is basically like calling 911 so it better be a fucking emergency

On most sane forums, reporting a post is actually the proper way to flag a post requiring moderator attention because it goes into a queue and flags the post for review rather than spamming PMs till you actually find a moderator who is even active.

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:Why would I do that, though? I don't want to piss him off or piss Dalton off by waving that in their faces and getting all lawyer-y, and besides, I actually like the guy. He was pretty nice via PM to me, so I'm not going to get all harsh on him, especially since he probably could have yelled at me more for some of the shit I pulled in the thread. Honestly, getting the chance to finally have confirmation that Simon hates me was probably worth the single warning, since I now know that all of his bloated replies to me conceal the weaksaucest of hatreds. So I think I'll handle this by PM or maybe with a thread or something, but even a thread would be pretty confrontational.

Fair enough.

I'm tempted to reactivate my account just to be a dick but I think I value my sanity too much.

No, supermods haven't been able to do that since have-a-very-nice-day-fgalkin abused it to ban datapacrat without any consultation with anybody else. Even Dalton is supposed to consult with Mike before banning anybody, and he is literally the only active admin at this point. At least that's what I've gathered, but if/when Red checks in he'll probably correct all of us.

why poniez, Baks-kun

why

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:No, supermods haven't been able to do that since have-a-very-nice-day-fgalkin abused it to ban datapacrat without any consultation with anybody else. Even Dalton is supposed to consult with Mike before banning anybody, and he is literally the only active admin at this point. At least that's what I've gathered, but if/when Red checks in he'll probably correct all of us.

So rather than demote/punish the one guy, they (Mike/Dalton) decided to make the forum fundementally less functional by dumping more load on them by punishing the collective whole of the forum by stripping all of the supermod's ban rights?

VF5SS wrote:why poniez, Baks-kun

why

?

xon wrote:

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote:No, supermods haven't been able to do that since have-a-very-nice-day-fgalkin abused it to ban datapacrat without any consultation with anybody else. Even Dalton is supposed to consult with Mike before banning anybody, and he is literally the only active admin at this point. At least that's what I've gathered, but if/when Red checks in he'll probably correct all of us.

So rather than demote/punish the one guy, they (Mike/Dalton) decided to make the forum fundementally less functional by dumping more load on them by punishing the collective whole of the forum by stripping all of the supermod's ban rights?

I like to think that at that point he realized that if he slimmed things down to supermods he could trust that he'd have too few to actually operate the board or something.

what i find incredible about that ethics thread is how ti's "you don't see any problem in abusing anything outside my arbitrary category?????"

wtf

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote: ?

your new avatar on TEO

VF5SS wrote:

B-A-K-U-S-T-R-A wrote: ?

your new avatar on TEO

pony solidarity

also it seemed like a good idea at the time

adr wrote:what i find incredible about that ethics thread is how ti's "you don't see any problem in abusing anything outside my arbitrary category?????"

wtf

eh i try and stay out of those types of arguments since my own ethics system is pretty simple and not terribly sophisticated beyond "okay well let's try to minimize suffering here"

ofc that has a whole host of problems in and of itself and i'm pretty sure i ignore it sometimes (hooray relativism)

Leave me alone, I'll leave you alone.

Thats my ethics system.

One thing I enjoy about ethical things is taking a good idea to some bad conclusion, either logically or practically.

When I'm not wanking to FRIENDSHIP AND SCIENCE SOLVES ALL!!!111!!11!11!!1, something I like to work into story ideas is along the line of "the road to hell is paved with generally decent people trying to follow generally decent ethical systems" lol.

Or replace people with AIs if you think it gets to a point where human gut feelings would definitely stop it.


There's the easy ones like minimize suffering = exterminate all cuz the dead feel no pain. Or the variation: control all cuz then you can remove the prediction problem (if making an ethical mistake is unacceptable, and mistakes are determined by consequences, it means your ability to predict consequences is of huge importance. How to make better predictions? Control everything.)


But then you moderate it a little... an ethical duty to reduce suffering logically leads to things like humanitarian interventions in a lot of cases. Your government isn't doing a good enough job according to us, so it's time for a CIA backed coup... your infrastructure is too poor, time for an invasion.



Exclusionary things too. Say you have some giant computer running the matrix. It's acting like it's just wasting energy. LIMITED RESOURCES OMG, are a bunch of cpu cycles worth the suffering of real people out here?

Better shut it down!





but there's all kinds of ridiculous things you can get out of these

adr wrote:One thing I enjoy about ethical things is taking a good idea to some bad conclusion, either logically or practically.

When I'm not wanking to FRIENDSHIP AND SCIENCE SOLVES ALL!!!111!!11!11!!1, something I like to work into story ideas is along the line of "the road to hell is paved with generally decent people trying to follow generally decent ethical systems" lol.

Or replace people with AIs if you think it gets to a point where human gut feelings would definitely stop it.


There's the easy ones like minimize suffering = exterminate all cuz the dead feel no pain. Or the variation: control all cuz then you can remove the prediction problem (if making an ethical mistake is unacceptable, and mistakes are determined by consequences, it means your ability to predict consequences is of huge importance. How to make better predictions? Control everything.)

Well the easy way around that is that eliminating free will and killing people causes suffering. But defining what counts as suffering and trying to figure out how much responsibility the individual has is part of the problem and brings us back to relativism.