New Testingstan

Whether they retcon it or not, you'll always have KotOR and TOR.

But I'm not unsympathetic. It does annoy me when those who come after something fail to respect what came before. But with SW, arguably one of the biggest offenders for that was the prequels, so... it's all a shit show, to be honest.

RogueIce wrote:Or it turns out to be a different planet altogether. Though worst case, they just change the name and keep the rest? From what I saw of the trailer the planet was pretty much a red desert with big statues, which is what I remember from playing TOR. Not exactly a killer retcon.

If all it is is a name change, there's no real issue. Lots of places change names in 2,000 years. What I'm afraid of is that the arc will delve into the Jedi Schism and the creation of the Sith, and they'll demonstrate their usual level of respect for previous material I.E. "overwrite it because fuck you EU fans, we know you'll all buy the DVDs anyways."

Darksi4190 wrote:NNNNNNNNOOOOOO!

:'(

Stofsk wrote:Whether they retcon it or not, you'll always have KotOR and TOR.

But I'm not unsympathetic. It does annoy me when those who come after something fail to respect what came before. But with SW, arguably one of the biggest offenders for that was the prequels, so... it's all a shit show, to be honest.

Personally I've wondered if it wouldn't have been better if Star Wars had handled it like Star Trek from the beginning, where the ST novels were nice and all but everybody knew up front they had zero meaning relative to the TV shows and movies.

===And yes I would like feedback on that before going on to my ramblings about the PT and TCW please, I don't want it to get lost. Thanks!===

Although I still give the Prequels a pass. IIRC the only thing they really had issue from the movies themselves was Leia's memories of her mother from RotJ, right? I can't remember anything else major that you couldn't just shrug your shoulders and accept.

But as far as invalidating the EU, eh. IMO, it was always clear to me that Lucas himself didn't consider himself bound to the EU. Hence all those "parallel worlds" and "foggy windows" quotes that were such fodder for the VS canon debates. Still, he kept some stuff like Coruscant, so there's that.

I dunno, maybe that's why I also gave TCW such a pass on that, because GL did work relatively closely with them on that, so if I gave a pass to the PT I would have to give a pass to TCW on the same merits.

40K has the best canon policy. 'All of it is canon, none of it is true'. Or something along those lines.

It would have the best noncanon policy if it weren't for the 40K fans trying to force canon upon the setting arbitrarily

RogueIce wrote:Personally I've wondered if it wouldn't have been better if Star Wars had handled it like Star Trek from the beginning, where the ST novels were nice and all but everybody knew up front they had zero meaning relative to the TV shows and movies.

See, I wouldn't mind it as much if they actually split the continuities, and just said "here's the EU continuity, and here's the ST/TCW/Rebels continuity." If they did that, I could follow one or both as I saw fit.

The thing i'm upset about is that it's just going to be the altered continuity going forward. There aren't going to be any more EU books with Jaina, Mara Jade, or any of the other characters i've followed since I was ten. If TCW retcons the birth of the Sith, there won't be a TOR era as I recognize it. If I felt that the content producers were going to throw any kind of a bone to fans of previous material, It wouldn't upset me at all.

I can feel that. They could take a page from Marvel with their 616verse, Ultimates verse, MCU, etc.

You can even call the movies, TCW/Rebels and whatever else they come up with the "main" universe of Star Wars (IIRC 616 is the "primary" Marvel timeline) but then, I don't know, revive the Infinities label and continue the old EU in there. Or maybe not Infinities, because we don't need Yoda dropping the Death Star on Coruscant, but you know what I mean. Have some actual 'parallel universes' like that old George Lucas quote, with the OT and PT (since the EU was more-or-less made to follow that anyway) as a common basis between the two.

I suppose that could get complicated, as you just know they'll want tie-in novels and comics and so forth for the ST and everything else. But it's possible; as I said, Marvel does it, so why not Star Wars?

did it really matter that Lucas gave his blessing to The Clone Wars? i'd think that's the last thing you'd want is having such a hack writer and director being near something that's actually good

From a quality perspective? It didn't matter much either way. I don't even know how much input Lucas had, outside of story ideas and approving stuff. Which seems to be about the limit of his involvement from what I gathered of those commentary videos they have on SW.com. I thought they were good because, well, I thought they were good when I watched them. That's about it. And IIRC from even those who intensely disliked the prequels, they offered that Lucas is a good "idea man" who does best with others around to help shape those ideas into reality, and that seems to be the process here: Lucas gave ideas and/or signed off on things, Filoni and his crew actually did the work of making it reality.

Really the whole thing about Lucas' involvement comes down to the continuity issues and retcons and why they happened and why the fans will just have to accept it, because (at the time TCW was actively airing, anyway) Lucas was The Man when it came to Star Wars, so if it was "his idea" or if he "signed off" on some TCW story idea that retconned the EU, well, tough cookies to the EU I guess.

canon makes everything suck

I decided to commemorate Aaron Allston's passing by listening to one of his books on audiobook. They only had crappy abridged versions of the Wraith Squadron trilogy, so I bought the first Fate of the Jedi book.

At one point he refers to the Death Star as an "asteroid-sized battlestation"

: (

I mean, it's good overall and I'm enjoying it, but still. That was all kinds of awkward.

I just don't get canon
why is this fiction somehow more real than this other fiction, and why are you letting some corporation dictate how you can interact with art?
It just seems to be a rather self-inflicted Hell to me

Ralin wrote:I decided to commemorate Aaron Allston's passing by listening to one of his books on audiobook. They only had crappy abridged versions of the Wraith Squadron trilogy, so I bought the first Fate of the Jedi book.

At one point he refers to the Death Star as an "asteroid-sized battlestation"

: (

I mean, it's good overall and I'm enjoying it, but still. That was all kinds of awkward.

Ceres is an asteroid and is about 950km in diameter, which puts it in the ballpark of the Death Star 2.

Asteroids come in all shapes and sizes. Strictly speaking, many of the moons that orbit our solar system's gas giants are likely captured asteroids.

evilsoup wrote:I just don't get canon
why is this fiction somehow more real than this other fiction, and why are you letting some corporation dictate how you can interact with art?
It just seems to be a rather self-inflicted Hell to me

Ideally "canon" is just a way to keep different contributing authors on the same page over the course of a long running franchise but the sheer size of these media properties (and the fact they are a product) has made it difficult to manage. Companies want to keep people engaged but only on their terms so they tell people what is and what isn't important (so people know what to buy this season). I don't think any story has really lived or died by its compliance with canon.

you know it just occurred to me that people should start calling works 'heretical' rather than 'non-canon'
it would make all this kind of conversation more interesting anyways
maybe a wordfilter?

THE TRAVIS HERESY!

Stofsk wrote: Ceres is an asteroid and is about 950km in diameter, which puts it in the ballpark of the Death Star 2.

Asteroids come in all shapes and sizes. Strictly speaking, many of the moons that orbit our solar system's gas giants are likely captured asteroids.

Oh, huh. Neat. Still seems like a weird way to describe it.

I feel better now though.

So Season 6 of TCW is officially live, and the other five seasons are also up on Netflix. This makes me so happy!

And I watched the first four episodes, which is the Order 66 arc:

Darksi4190 wrote:If they nuke Korriban, then they nuke KOTOR, TOR, and a great many of my favorite SW stories get tossed out the window.

No, they don't. Their quality as stories do not change because they are less canon or whatever. Do those stories mean something to you? Then they mean something to you. End of.

Well I just saw the Yoda arc for TCW season six, and I have to say i'm happy with it. They literally nailed everything about the presentation of Korriban except the name, which makes me wonder why they changed it. It's a dusty, red planet filled with broken and decaying Sith Temples. It's literally right out of KoTOR.


Also, I'm a bit surprised at the voice actor for Darth Bane's ghost.

So, finally watched all 13 episodes. An excellent way to end the series, I must say. Did it wrap up all the loose ends of the series? Well, no, but given the circumstances I wouldn't have expected it to.

But I will say this: I think it wrapped up the loose ends that needed to be wrapped up...before Episode III.

Sure, it would have been great to see what Ahsoka had gotten herself up to, or the fate of Mandalore. But y'know what? Ahsoka left the Jedi Order, meaning it's highly unlikely she got caught by Order 66. And it's not like Civil Wars are done overnight, either. So those two plot threads can, at the very least, by safely addressed by Rebels - and I imagine they will. The only real plot thread I can see needing some form of pre-Ep3 resolution is Darth Maul and what Sidious has in store for him, but apparently he's getting a comic book so whatever.

All in all, I am sad to see TCW go, especially knowing they had so much more planned for at least two seasons to come. And I am really hoping we get to see Ahsoka and Bo Katan in Rebels not only to resolve their respective arcs, but also because Ashley Eckstein and Katie Sackhoff are pretty awesome and I'd love to hear more of them in that galaxy far, far away.

But anyway, on to the arcs!

Order 66 - Oh man, what a gut punch that turned out to be! Poor Fives and Tup... This was an all-around fantastic arc and really ups the overall tragedy that is the Clone Army. Not only do we learn that they never had a choice about Order 66, but this does so much to humanize them, from Five's insistence that it "matters to a Clone" whether you address them by name or number, to the Clone Bar showing that yes, these men are so very much human and not just organic droids, to Tup's and Five's determination to take whatever risks there may be in the hope of solving this mystery that could affect their brothers. And that ending...so many feels! Clone episodes are some of the best episodes TCW produced, and these four were no exception.

Clovis - Technically meant for Season 5 (and hearing Ian Abercrombie as Palpatine once more was a treat in and of itself), this brought back Padme to the fore, who deserves some screen-time, what with being a central character of the PT and all. Plus it nicely resolves Clovis' story and makes him a truly sympathetic and tragic figure by the end. And damn, more of Palpatine's manipulations, expertly playing both sides of the war to his ultimate advantage. I know these politics episodes are always hit or miss with the fandom, but I think this one was a solid hit.

Jar Jar - TCW has done a lot to redeem him from his Episode I days, and this episode is a fitting cap to that. A fun Temple of Doom reference in the first part, and seeing Jar Jar with that ultimate of straight men Mace Windu provided for much quality humor. Plus, we see the end of Mother Talzin, and it seems somehow fitting that Mace be the one to finish her off. And what of everyone's favorite Gungan? Well, he was legitimately useful here. And he managed to contribute to the fights with actual effort on his part (like punching that one dude in the face) rather than the accidental antics he is known for. I think it showed the real growth TCW gave his character, and I'm glad they took the risk because it paid off, IMO. Sure maybe we could have had a different two episodes for this, the finale of an epic series, but I think it works and serves as a nice breather to the tragedies that hallmarked the previous arcs. Especially as we are led into...

Yoda - So, this arc. Epic. What more can I say? Everything about it showed maximum effort: the story, the music and dear Lord the visuals were breathtaking. Yoda was really put through the ringer in those final three episodes, wasn't he? And I gotta say, Ahsoka's brief (and unexpected, but a pleasant surprise!) cameo really tugged at my heartstrings. And you can tell it had an effect on Yoda, too. An excellent mini follow-up to what was, before the Lost Missions, TCW's epic series finale. Those scenes of what it would have been like, without the war, also tugged on the emotions. To see all those fallen Jedi in that utterly peaceful and beautiful courtyard I never knew the Jedi Temple had, and having Obi-Wan chatting with Qui-Gon and Dooku...oh what could have been without the manipulation of the Sith! And that ending was also great, giving us a great hope spot for the Dark Times we all know are coming. TCW is one of the few shows that I can say has had two excellent finales, and I could not honestly pick one over the other.

So yeah, I liked the way it ended. Would have loved to see what they had for us in a full Season Six and then Season Seven, but alas it was not meant to be. But we do have Rebels to look forward to, and if nothing else, Season Six of TCW has just further reinforced my faith that quality Star Wars television has not ended, but is only just beginning.

So the music for The Clone Wars was fucking epic, and as I watch through old episodes on Netflix, not only do I get to relive the awesome stories, actions and characters, but I also reacquaint myself with Kevin Kiner's incredible work. Whatever the quality of any individual episode or story arc may have been, Mister Kiner was always in top form, IMO.

And so while I wait for the day Lucasfilm/Disney wake up and realize they should release seasonal soundtracks, I have Kevin Kiner's own website to keep me occupied. Just click on "The Clone Wars" and prepare yourself for an audial treat. Music from the series, not just the movie. "Withdraw the Troops" is especially amazing, IMO. I need to find that episode and listen to it in the context of whatever scene they gave it, because God damn it gives me some chills. Also, right at the top of the list, is the music that plays as Ahsoka leaves in the S5 finale, as well as the credits theme all in one nice piece.

Definitely check it out if you liked this series and appreciated the epic music Kevin Kiner produced for it. IMO, his work most definitely stands shoulder-to-shoulder with John Williams in creating the musical legacy of Star Wars.

Could the Disney Star Wars movie released in the comparatively near future bring the ailing SD.Net back from the negative feedback loop it's been stuck in the past three or four years?

I doubt it. The new movies aren't going to be part of Lucas's brilliant artistic vision.