New Testingstan

I don't quite get the stance that if your not pro-abortion, your anti-woman.

I find abortion rather distasteful but I think a woman's right to choose trumps that. How is that anti-woman?

well there's one really obvious problem with secession

if a state's secession would lead to a greater oppression of minorities living within that state who don't necessarily have the ability to leave, is it really ethical to let them secede?

Aaron wrote:I don't quite get the stance that if your not pro-abortion, your anti-woman.

I find abortion rather distasteful but I think a woman's right to choose trumps that. How is that anti-woman?

Though I like to call the pro life movementthe "pro-poverty" movement because in thr us it seems less about kids and more about keeping filthy sluts in their place.

debates over abortion are incredibly partisan aaron

i hold the same belief, that abortion isn't a good thing and should be a matter of last resort, but ultimately it's the woman's right to choose

the problem is many on the pro-choice side are just as bad and ugly at debate as those on the pro-life side, which is where you get ridiculous shit like 'oh a foetus doesn't matter so abortion is A-OK all the time forever'

mind you i do think that the pro-life crowd is largely to blame for the debate being partisan

Aaron wrote:

Aaron wrote:I don't quite get the stance that if your not pro-abortion, your anti-woman.

I find abortion rather distasteful but I think a woman's right to choose trumps that. How is that anti-woman?

Though I like to call the pro life movementthe "pro-poverty" movement because in thr us it seems less about kids and more about keeping filthy sluts in their place.

my biggest problem with anti-abortionists is that most of them seem to be rather blatant hypocrites

i don't understand how you can claim to be pro-life but simultaneously gleefully cheer on the death penalty and killing muslims

something that concerns me about the meta-debate is

it's all too easy for us privileged, first world, white males to sit around sipping cocoa and say things since it's all kinda abstract

we're not the babies being aborted

and we're not the women being oppressed

so i get concerned that it's just too easy to stop caring and/or to miss something very important that we just aren't seeing from the right perspective


i don't have a great solution but it's just something to keep in mind, especially if you start to get really confident in your position. systemic biases can affect us all and it ain't good, and the sexist bias is fucking strong in our society

btw privileged is an incredibly difficult word to spell

i have to look it up almost every time

adr wrote:something that concerns me about the meta-debate is

it's all too easy for us privileged, first world, white males to sit around sipping cocoa and say things since it's all kinda abstract

we're not the babies being aborted

and we're not the women being oppressed

so i get concerned that it's just too easy to stop caring and/or to miss something very important that we just aren't seeing from the right perspective


i don't have a great solution but it's just something to keep in mind, especially if you start to get really confident in your position. systemic biases can affect us all and it ain't good, and the sexist bias is fucking strong in our society

well, one scenario is what happens if you need to abort the fetus to save the mother's life because of complications?

if abortion is illegal, you've just given the doctor a choice between becoming a criminal and letting his patient die

if you make an exception for this, then what grounds do you use to justify the exception?

Aaron wrote:I don't quite get the stance that if your not pro-abortion, your anti-woman.

I find abortion rather distasteful but I think a woman's right to choose trumps that. How is that anti-woman?

Well, you can't subscribe that view to all who are anti-choice, but to those who look at pregnancy as being punishment and that you should carry that damned child of burden, you most certainly can.

You can also argue that because America's politicians are overwhelmingly male and that to be anti-choice is to prevent a woman from having control of her body, then that is anti-woman.

Zod wrote:if you make an exception for this, then what grounds do you use to justify the exception?

that's easy: he's not taking a life. he's saving one, since the alternative is to let them both die

adr wrote:

Zod wrote:if you make an exception for this, then what grounds do you use to justify the exception?

that's easy: he's not taking a life. he's saving one, since the alternative is to let them both die

unless he fakes the records so the mother can abort regardless and escape penalties

when science perfects the artificial womb i think we'll have much better options available

abortions won't be necessary for the choice except for the poor

and we can solve that too. if i was a pro-life group i'd offer to pay for the transplant procedure and the womb and take care of all the adoption stuff

so instead of getting the abortion

you can stop by your local church or whatever and do the fetus transplant at no cost to you, and then you're out of it

alternatively have the government pay for it all like how all healthcare would be handled in utopia

but i'd donate money for this

Are you saying what the world needs is more wards of the state

yes

starku wrote:Are you saying what the world needs is more wards of the state

Worked well with the First Nations?

adr wrote:yes

I guess you like crime

The whole "wards of the state" thing is just a horrible idea given the systemic problems with both the Nations and things like foster care here. It's just a license to abuse, so you better be prepared to burn it out.

it's not like orphanages are plagued by child molesters or anything

Stofsk wrote:

Darth Tedious wrote:To be fair, Adam often does troll. It's just their failure to see the valid points that he illustrates with his trolling.

I know, but I'm referring to those that call him a troll in order to ignore and dismiss whatever he writes.

Honestly though I don't think Adam really trolls all that much. Maybe I'm just too biased in his favour to see it, but a lot of the time I tend to see what he writes as honestly held beliefs, even if I disagree with them.

Keep in mind, I hardly read N&P, so I mostly see his stylings in sci-fi.
Having a look over some of the debates in question, he seems to be discussing quite seriously.

But yeah, people are way too quick to poison the well.

aghast

ne'er would i troll sci fi

adr wrote:aghast

ne'er would i troll sci fi

:mrgreen:

it's funny to me when americans go "rar! unions too big" when their trade unions are among the smallest in the world

it's like when they say "rar! taxes too high!"

guys

i don't think you know what that means

i don't even know what to say to "unlike employers, unions don't look out for the employees"

i'm vaguely amused by that one army thread with them all saying he wasn't promoted enough

it shouldn't matter if this guy was a good soldier or not

Apparently crappy soldiers don't get into the Pantheon of Soldiers or something.