New Testingstan

Also, a number of teacher have been pressured to think not about what use their kids will have of the stuff they teach ; but to make sure they can pass the exams.

Oxymoron wrote:Also, a number of teacher have been pressured to think not about what use their kids will have of the stuff they teach ; but to make sure they can pass the exams.

indeed. I'm currently reading two books on education or one of my courses: John Dewey's Democracy and Education and How People Learn by the Committee on Developments in the Science of Learning. These books stress that more has to be done to educate the populace.

Dewey, from what I read last night, insists that interest and mind (terms he defines in a long winded manner) are some of the most important tools for students. For instance:

"The function of this material in engaging activity and carrying it on consistently and continuously is its interest. If the material operates in this way, there is no call either to hunt for decides which will make it interesting or to appeal to arbitrary, semi-coerced effort."

This is fantastic stuff. At the moment, a lot of children find math completely uninteresting. If you can somehow make the subject interesting by connecting it to another context (more on that below), then perhaps you can change the negative views toward not only math, but the sciences. Here's another quote from Dewey:

"To make it interesting by leading one to realize the connection that exists is simply good sense; to make it interesting and artificial inducements deserves all the bad names which have been applied ot the doctrine of interest in education."

How People Learn has a fantastic section about how kids need to transfer their knowledge outside of the classroom. Simply teaching it with no connection to other contexts is not good. You want to teach it in a manner where children can use it in other contexts. Sure, tests need to be administered to gauge their understanding of the material, but to only strive for that is, in my opinion, a disservice to children and the public. A grave disservice is attaching test results to funding. Not only does that remove the incentive to actually teach the material in a way that carries on, it creates teachers who teach for the tests.

We have better discussions here than YOU FUCKING MORON! SDN.

Edit: Would it be possible for a mod to take these posts and move it to the thread I made about my career aspirations? I don't wan't that thread to die and what's being discussed here needs to be preserved in a more efficient manner.

I applied to do some teaching at a local school's after school program. It's two hours twice a week and I get a stipend. It will also look great on my resume.

Also, I was quite appalled when one of my teachers said that a starting salary of $40,000 is good. It certainly isn't when you have taxes, pension to pay for, and medical bills. A friend's girlfriend makes that and brings home about $19,000 after everything is said and done.

Man I make $42k starting working for the richest province this side of Saudi Arabia. Manage your expectations better. I'd be making $50k, maybe $55k, starting if I had pursued my accounting designation but again that's because we have 4% unemployment in Alberta and I networked well. I know lots of guys who got $40k in accounting.

I was pulling in nearly 40k at my old job after being there for six years. It's a perfectly livable salary if you don't have mounds of debt or other extenuating expenses.

Zod wrote:if you don't have mounds of debt or other extenuating expenses.

That's probably the key point in Knub's case.

I *wish* I made 40k a year.

Zod wrote:I was pulling in nearly 40k at my old job after being there for six years. It's a perfectly livable salary if you don't have mounds of debt or other extenuating expenses.

I'll have student loans and health expenses. I'll be inquiring about what types of health plans are available for public school teachers later this evening. If It's the typical BS with deductibles, I'm fucked

Phantasee wrote:Man I make $42k starting working for the richest province this side of Saudi Arabia. Manage your expectations better. I'd be making $50k, maybe $55k, starting if I had pursued my accounting designation but again that's because we have 4% unemployment in Alberta and I networked well. I know lots of guys who got $40k in accounting.

How much do they bring home after taxes? Remember, you guys also don't have insurance plans that require not only premiums, but also deductibles. If I'm bringing home $19k a year, that's not enough given my situation.

So, I have the teaching job in the school's after school program. I begin on Wednesday. I just spent $200 on attire. I will also apply for a counseling position at my school's summer camp for kids interested in STEM fields. It pays a decent amount ($400/week for seven weeks) for sumemr work. Hopefully I'l lbe able to network quite a bit with these experiences.

Now, for some illuminating information on third grade in my state. Do you all remember how to add large numbers by hand? Do you remember that you have to carry numbers over to the next column? Well, they don't learn that until fourth or fifth grade, quite often the latter. The reason is that the children know numbers, but they can't fathom the magnitude of them. For instance, if they see "342", all they see is 3, 4, and 2, and not three hundred forty two. Christ.

Back in my day they taught us the quadratic equation in first grade and by gum we liked it!

Negative Knub wrote:Now, for some illuminating information on third grade in my state. Do you all remember how to add large numbers by hand? Do you remember that you have to carry numbers over to the next column? Well, they don't learn that until fourth or fifth grade, quite often the latter. The reason is that the children know numbers, but they can't fathom the magnitude of them. For instance, if they see "342", all they see is 3, 4, and 2, and not three hundred forty two. Christ.

wtf?

To be honest, delaying basic arithmetic is dumbing down education.

Fourth grade would be... nine years old? Or am I working it out wrong?

Yeah that seems a bit late to be starting basic arithmatic

Negative Knub wrote:To be honest, delaying basic arithmetic is dumbing down education.

Where the hell are you teaching? Even in the shitty ghetto schools I work at, the curriculum moves faster than that. Most of the kids (who pay attention) know the basics of how to find a perimeter or area by the end of third grade.

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:

Negative Knub wrote:To be honest, delaying basic arithmetic is dumbing down education.

Where the hell are you teaching? Even in the shitty ghetto schools I work at, the curriculum moves faster than that. Most of the kids (who pay attention) know the basics of how to find a perimeter or area by the end of third grade.

An elementary school near the university. Georgia ranks 19 in science and math: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/1 ... 94528.html

But still, this is a disservice to the kids. I'm apprehensive about what kids in high school know when I teach some this fall.

Goddamn:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/4/NBT

"CCSS.Math.Content.4.NBT.B.4 Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm."

That's a nationwide standard, not a state by state basis.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your indignation or anything...

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/1/NBT

Place value and adding place value is where it always was, grade 1. I don't think "fluently" means what you are implying.

my school didn't teach me multiplication or division until 4th grade

pretty sure we didn't learn any serious multiplication and for sure not division until 4th grade either

i still remember those awesome "tests" or whatever they were supposed to be that we did in 5th grade. you had to do 100 multiplications in under, I think, three minutes, and you basically had to redo it every few weeks until you got them all correct in time (you see the real idea wasn't to teach you how to multiply but to encode "2*7 = 14" as a symbol in your brain because why not)

and i sucked at it (timewise that is) and started getting really stressed out at the idea that holy shit pretty soon i'm gonna be last one left who still hasn't passed this

eventually the teacher changed the timeframe to five minutes unexpectedly and then i could do it with fifteen minutes to spare


huh

with shit like that in school no wonder my stomach went bad during that time


math fucked me up

Questor wrote:Don't let the facts get in the way of your indignation or anything...

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/1/NBT

Place value and adding place value is where it always was, grade 1. I don't think "fluently" means what you are implying.

Except a mentor teacher told me what she was teaching in grade three (and relayed the info on what she taught in grade four) and what I would be too. You can quote all that shit you want, it doesn't mean that the school is going to follow it, let alone the teachers.

Also note that what I quoted said "standard algorithm." What do you think that means? The way we were taught to carry what's left over to the other column (this is the wrong terminology; I've been knee deep in matrices)? It's very vague. That's what I was referring to, not "fluently." Read the discussion and know the context. This is all predicated on what the teacher told me and what she has experience with. I know you wanted to get a cheap shot in with the "Don't let facts get in the way" so you can carry over the ever-loved SDN cred here, but do us all a favor and read the thread before posting.

Edit: Perhaps the teacher is wrong on all accounts and taking her word on it is foolish. When I observe the class tomorrow morning, I'll be sure to ask for specifics from my mentor teacher and bring along not only what you quoted, what I did as well. If it turns out I am wrong, I'll say so, apologize for misleading the board, and relay what she says to me.

Questor: After reading what you linked to and the other grades, it appears that the teacher I spoke with is wrong and in my desire to trust people, fell victim to either a falsehood or a misconception about the common core standards. They learn to perform multi-digit addition and subtraction throughout elementary school, perhaps becoming fluent by fourth grade. Each successive year appears to give them larger numbers to add. Second and third grade have them adding and subtracting within 1000 and fourth does away with that by having them perform arithmetic way over 1000.

Is it...over 9000?

You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing up that meme.

Go sit in the corner. Now.

Hrmm, I was actually trying to cancel that post. (Ran out of Internet time.) didn't think it went through.

As I understand it, (and Im not a teacher, but I have to deal, at least to a small degree with implementing SBAC) one of the real issues with implementation of the CC standards is that not a terrible amount of detail is given, and that the targets are defined, but how they are to be measured is not being defined by the common core group, but the assessment consortiums, and further definition by the states, followed by district and school "norming".