Share your favorite Star Wars memories

[Infinity Biscuit]

How does Lucasarts closing affect any of their other properties outside of Star Wars? I'm way out of the loop here so some of this is probably obvious, but does Lucasarts do any non-Star Wars games that'd be affected by the studio being dissolved?

[Darksi4190]

Lucasarts hasn't produced a non-SW game in years. Actually technically speaking they haven't produced a SW game in years either. Since about 2001 they've primarily been a publisher, and all the best games produced since then have been developed by other parties.

I would assume that the existing properties like the adventure games or the "secret weapons" series are owned by Disney now so I wouldn't expect any revivals. Basically whatever's already been re-released as part of the deal with Steam will stay out there, but nothing new will come down the pipe.

I am trying so hard not to agree with the people shouting on TFN and SB.com about how Star Wars is dead, but it's getting more and more difficult as stuff that I was looking forward to keeps getting canned.

[Oxymoron]

Don't worry, Star Wars still lives forever

in your heart

[RogueIce]

lol @ TOR forums

Mainly, the guy who thinks Disney will pull the plug on TOR to "protect their IP" because stuff in the Cartel Market "violates the lore" and this somehow matters to Disney in any way, shape or form.

[Darksi4190]

TOR is a BioWare thing. I've been told that the game is profitable again, though it'll probably never reach the massive number of subscribers it had in 2011, so BioWare and EA will probably shell out money to extend the License with Disney if they have to.

There probably won't be anymore spin off books, but from the one I read (Fatal Alliance) that's something I'm OK with.

[RogueIce]

Oh yeah, I fully expect that as long as it generates whatever EAware considers a viable profit to be, they'll keep TOR around. Heck the way TOR is is exactly the route Disney is going with LA so I can't see them having any issues so long as all involved are still making enough money to be happy.

I just found it funny some moron actually thought Disney would give enough of a shit that a Sith Warrior in TOR could run around in "Jedi Armor" bought from the CM that they'd actually revoke the license in vigorous defense of the Sacred Lore that EAware is so cruelly violating to make a quick buck.

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

Star wars is 'dead' only in the sense its changed from the franchise we used to know, which means its 'dead' in the same way Star Trek is dead, or the sort of computer/video gaming we used to get is dead. Things change, time moves on, but its that nostalgia factor that drives us to feel that apparent 'loss. There will no longer be a Star Wars with Lucas at the helm (not that there has in a long time) and what we've gotten used to thinking of as Star Wars is going to continue to change so we will not recognize it.

Nostalgia drives that sort of feeling, especially when its that nostalgia for the movies (which I like, but I didn't find them as great as I did when I was a kid, and I'm not so attached to my rose coloured glasses when it comes to Star Wars that I would overlook the flaws the way some on SDN do.)

Honestly the whole Lucasarts thing is more disappointing for me becuase of the non-Star Wars franchises. I was always hoping we'd get more Monkey Island or similar, because I was a big fan of their adventure games. TIE fighter and X-wing alliance were great, but those were the only real notable 'game's of sTar Wars I enjoyed (well Kotor too I suppose..)

[Darksi4190]

Yeah I mean obviously Nostalgia is a factor. There's no way i'll ever enjoy the movies as much as I did that first time I saw them when I was a kid because

A: I've matured since then and can better spot the plot holes and downright bad bits. This is especially true with TPM which I loved as a kid. I must have dragged my poor parents to see it a half-dozen times. Now when I go back to watch it I usually stop somewhere during the Tattoine scenes because they just kill the pacing and drag everything to a halt. With Episode II there are bits that I still enjoy watching, like Obi-Wan's hunt for Jango and the resulting political turmoil and action, but the bits where it cuts to Anakin and Padme are just so terrible that I can't get through the movie in one sitting anymore. Episode III is the only one of the prequels that I still maintain was as good as the originals, and would gladly watch again anytime. There are boring bits, but they pass by pretty quickly so they don't kill your enjoyment.

and

B: I've already seen the Prequels at least a half-dozen times a piece, and when you've seen a movie six times, there's really nothing that's going to grab you on viewing seven that didn't during 1-6. As for the Original Trilogy, I probably haven't watched an OT movie in five or six years. When you get to the point where you can quote every line of dialogue from a movie before the characters say it, there's really no reason to watch that movie anymore. It can be fun to go back and re-watch a movie that you enjoyed previously, but at some point it becomes routine and you just want something new. It is because of this that my interest in SW is now primarily situated in the EU. The books, the cartoons, the video games, the comics. They provide more glimpses into the universe I love, but it isn't the same old material so it isn't as worn out. That isn't to say that all of it is golden. The "fuck the EU" crowd is at least partially correct about the level of shit that's present. The post-RotJ era EU should probably be killed off, and TCW realistically had one more year in it before the premise started getting old, which is something I think the writing staff realized as well given how close they were moving the story to the events of RotS. But while there was a significant amount of crap, there were also gems if you knew how to find them. Any of Zahn's work is going to be at least a decent read, the X-wing books were great, and even the NJO had its exceptional moments.

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

I havent watched a SW movie probably since AOTC. I bought the videos out of nerd-analysis and compulsive habit but I havent watched them back to back in a long time. (I watch Lord of the Rings more often actually LOL.) I just don't retread the sutff I'm already familiar with (at least the movies) because I watched them a ton when I was younger, I'm familiar with them even decades later in extreme detail, and I have lots of other interests I wnat to read/watch (like Gundam or 40K.) I felt the same way about B5 actually.. I dont hate it, but I just don't have any urge to go back and watch it (altholugh dealing with the rabid fans kinda burnd me out and still burns me out.)

Its not so much that I've lost interest in Star Wars as a setting, becuase I haven't.. but I dont have any particular fixation on any one part of it. I don't hate the EU as vehemently as some do (even though it can and does have shit, but that's fundamentally true of any universe.) and I'm not so fixated on it that I will let the bad parts dilute my enjoyment of the parts I do like. I can actually compartmentalize like that.. I usually look at something (like a novel) in the sense 'okay I like this part, I hate this part' and if the stuff I like outweighs the stuff I hate, then its generally a positive experience. Same with the movies, games or whatever. Some people though get so fixated on particular parts (EG the whole 'scale' and minimalism thing) that it can literally ruin their enjoyment of an entire work.. or an entire franchise.

Plus, the problems you might find in STar Wars fiction (or 40K fiction or any franchise) are simply a symptom of the larger problems in sci fi in general - the factional/tribal crap, the repetition, and the economic drive overriding anything resembling quality. At least in much of the Western stuff I've encountered, although as I said you can always find writers who still write good shit even in a setting that may be popularly considered 'shit.'

[Darksi4190]

At least in much of the Western stuff I've encountered,

You're still a Weeaboo Noob, so take it from someone more experienced with eastern franchises than you. This is not a western-specific phenomenon. Gundam in particular has what I would consider to be a much higher ratio of shit to gold than SW or 40k.

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

I dunno. At least as far as UC gundam goes (what I've watched) I find it all rather interesting and plausible. If anyhting, Gundam has made me more tolerant of alot of the hard science nerd concepts like 'you don't have to leave the solar system to tell interesting stories' even though that is used as a justification to hate on the concept of FTL by some of those same sorts of nerds (cuz its not realistic.) What we deem shit and what we consider acceptable is all pretty much a personal value judgement - we will make excuses for the shit we like but we will be less tolerant (or uncaring at least) of shit that doesn't interest us.

For example, on SB I've sseen lots of sci fi nerds who shit on Halo because of various things (Covenant aren't MILNERD spec, the UNSC isn't 'tech advanced' enough, etc.) but they'll give a pass on shit like Mass Effect or Crysis because it uses the right nerd-tech buzzwords or fills that nerd-tech fetish. I hate literally gotten to the point where I want to throttle someone for mentioning 'carbon nanotubes' - hard nerds will use that to justify any degree of nigh-magic bullshit because it suits the hard-science paradigm.

And no, its not a phenomenon unique to Western entertainment, although it depends on the specific genre. WEstern sci fi has stagnated quite a bit, I think. And not in that 'there is no good sci fi on TV' anymore idea either, but rather in the 'sci fi has been diluted down tos everal key categories, and it rarely deviates much from those'. baen novels are a good example of this, but alot of the HARD SCIFI stuff is too.

[adr]

ftl sux because it is a crutch you can fall back on instead of thinking of far more interesting things

BTW i was literally just five minutes ago thinking about carbon nanotubes. a steel cable would prolly work too but this is a next generation cable and steel is soooo yesterday

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

anything that is overelied on can become a 'crutch'. It isnt the fault of the idea or concept, its the fault of the writer (or generally the people involved.) That 'crutch' thing can be applied to virtually any idea. Including carbon nanotubes.

Indeed I believe that some hard science fans use realism and that whole adherence to numbers and science and shit as a crutch. Ford could corroborate how often you can run into people on SB who literally cannot conceive of introducing a non-'realistic' concept like say, space fighters (or horror of horrors, something like a gundam) without trying to justify it in a explicitly 'REALISTIC' context, complete with detailed technical descriptions and whatnot.

And when a technophiliac like me thinks its excessive, you know there are problems,

[RyanThunder]

Gundams are like the most obtuse weapon delivery system in the universe.

But I love watching them so I don't really care.

[adr]

i'm just trollin' ya man (well kind of, i half mean it but don't really disagree with you either. But I was seriously thinking of carbon nanotubes a few minutes before looking at this thread!)

but

Ford could corroborate how often you can run into people on SB who literally cannot conceive of introducing a non-'realistic' concept like say, space fighters (or horror of horrors, something like a gundam) without trying to justify it in a explicitly 'REALISTIC' context, complete with detailed technical descriptions and whatnot.

It isn't really that hard to justify space fighters! I think these worries come from too much dogma or a bit of setting mismash - they are halfway between the space opera and hard sf mindset, and that leads to some contradictions. When you dive right in and really try something new, there's all kinds of possibilities.... including old favorites.

[RogueIce]

The "fuck the EU" crowd is at least partially correct about the level of shit that's present. The post-RotJ era EU should probably be killed off, and TCW realistically had one more year in it before the premise started getting old, which is something I think the writing staff realized as well given how close they were moving the story to the events of RotS. But while there was a significant amount of crap, there were also gems if you knew how to find them. Any of Zahn's work is going to be at least a decent read, the X-wing books were great, and even the NJO had its exceptional moments.

I've gone back and forth on this one pretty hard over the years. At first I rather enjoyed the EU, and didn't get all the hate. Then came Karen Traviss and the plot of The Force Unleashed and I came to utterly loath the EU. I gotta be honest though: for all the "Travissty" bluster that goes on, it was actually TFU and Starkiller "founding the Rebellion and oh BTW his family crest = Alliance logo now lololo" that really pushed me over the edge. The whole Traviss thing...well I wasn't happy with it and thought it was stupid, but I didn't actively hate anything until TFU.

Now I've throttled back a bit on all of that. There's EU I like, EU I tolerate, and EU I pretend doesn't exist. Basically what filled me with nerd rage was the Everything Is Canon and then coming to despise what was becoming canon. Once I stopped giving a shit about canon and instead relying on what I liked and the rest can go to Hell, I found greater enjoyment.

I still hold "fuck the EU" both as a cohesive whole (for reasons I state above) and in relation to what TCW (was) doing and the upcoming Episode VII. I'll admit I never read much of the CW-era EU so when TCW retconned stuff it was no nevermind to me. And now I just want E7 to be a good movie, without being restrained by having "omg Jacen Solo the Sith Lord!" or whatever. As much as I'd fanboy out seeing Thrawn on the big screen, I want to see an original movie, not a film version of Heir to the Empire or whatever (as impossible as it'd be given the ages of the Power Trio, but anyway).

So yeah, there's that.

[Darksi4190]

I know i've mentioned this before, but I consider the previous Clone Wars EU material published from 2002-2005 to be some of the best EU material ever created. There was an overreaching vision that tied together books, cartoons, comics, and video games into a cohesive look at the universe. The Republic series of comics was excellent, there were great books like Yoda: Dark Rendezvous and the MedStar Duology, and even the books that I don't consider great were still fun to read at least once. It really pulled off a consistent level of quality that the post-RotJ material and TCW just couldn't match. I would highly recommend taking a look at it if you get the chance.

At this point, i'm just hoping like you that I like Episode 7 and the new time period it creates, because it really doesn't look like there are going to be anymore good stories in the Prequel or OT eras. Sure, we'll be tossed a bone every once and a while to keep the fanbase buying stuff, but I really don't think there will be anything on the level of TCW's Umbara arc, Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, or the X-wing novels.

[Stofsk]

I can't hate Karen Traviss, not when Lucas low-balled the number of clones that Kamino was churning out in Attack of the Clones. Yeah yeah the dialogue was about 'units', but most of the time unit = 1 of something. Like anytime someone says we have x number of units it usually means 1 of something. If the character was talking platoons, companies, regiments, he should have fucking said that. At the very best interpretation all you can really say is that it was ambiguous. The fact Karen Traviss interpreted it her way is pretty much her prerogative as the author. Too much hate flowed towards her IMO.

Which is not to say I think she's a great writer or anything. I'm sure she's terrible. But people were acting like she committed some grave sin.

As for episode 7, I'm not overly optimistic but I'll give it a shot. It might be better than the prequels, but quite frankly that shouldn't be hard.

[Veef]

doesn't the main problem the EU has really just stem from Star Wars (being movies) being properties with a lot of texture but little substance? i mean yeah it's a dirty cobbled together looking universe but nobody ever goes on about the price of grain on Dantooine or anything really important

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

It isn't really that hard to justify space fighters! I think these worries come from too much dogma or a bit of setting mismash - they are halfway between the space opera and hard sf mindset, and that leads to some contradictions. When you dive right in and really try something new, there's all kinds of possibilities.... including old favorites.

No, they're not, but alot of people don't realize that, and make the whole 'rationalization' process harder than it needs to be. Its all about preconceptions, and 'realism' (or at least the way I see it used on Spacebattles, for example) is just one way preconceptions can hamper fiction.

I mean Mobile suits aren't really that hard to rationalize if you can accept Space fighters. Mobile suits are really just space fighters with limbs.

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

I can't hate Karen Traviss, not when Lucas low-balled the number of clones that Kamino was churning out in Attack of the Clones. Yeah yeah the dialogue was about 'units', but most of the time unit = 1 of something. Like anytime someone says we have x number of units it usually means 1 of something. If the character was talking platoons, companies, regiments, he should have fucking said that. At the very best interpretation all you can really say is that it was ambiguous. The fact Karen Traviss interpreted it her way is pretty much her prerogative as the author. Too much hate flowed towards her IMO.

Traviss only receives the blame because she's a convenient and visible scapegoat - she made herself visible by being the most vehement defender, which to the tribal 'VS debate/so-called 'rationalist' mindset' made her a target. The real origin for the small numbers was with the AOTC novel (not the Movie, and thus not Lucas) which was RA Salvatore's doing, but it was the RPG stuff and Ryan Kaufmann who also had a hand. The 'rationalists' get bent out of shape because things aren't running the way they think they ought to (rather than just accepting it happened and ignoring it, like was done with most of the EU shit people don't like.) Traviss jumped in, and we ended up getting massive, tribal polarization. In the end noone really 'won' that little fiasco, and it did more harm than good. But because MORE CLONES was the fixation, we had a completely uneccessary and pointless fight.

Of course some people deliberately set out for an argument, because there are always some people who THRIVE on such conflict, too.

Which is not to say I think she's a great writer or anything. I'm sure she's terrible. But people were acting like she committed some grave sin.

She's not terrible when she's got someone riding herd on er like an editor. She's written some quite good stuff. But you can't let her have free reign or its JEDI SPOON BENDERS and her fetish for Mandalorians. Plus that whole 'pride' thing above.

[Glass Fort MacLeod]

doesn't the main problem the EU has really just stem from Star Wars (being movies) being properties with a lot of texture but little substance? i mean yeah it's a dirty cobbled together looking universe but nobody ever goes on about the price of grain on Dantooine or anything really important

What it really comes down to is nostalgia. Some people want Star Wars to be just like the OT, because thats where their most positive feelings for Star Wars lie (they think back to the whole experience of watching it.) That drives alot of what I see as the 'canon purists' (because nothing is like the movies) the OT purists (because the Prequels and EU are not like the OT), and it also drives much of what we get in the EU and what is wrong with the EU. (IT tries hard to be too much like the movies to please the fans and to get money from the fandom, but that also leads to the same formulaic repetition and stagnation that also hampers its development as a universe. Same heroes, same aliens, same planets, same starships, etc.)

IF anything killed Star Wars its going to be the nostalgia, which in a way is very ironic.

[Ralin]

Traviss only receives the blame because she's a convenient and visible scapegoat - she made herself visible by being the most vehement defender, which to the tribal 'VS debate/so-called 'rationalist' mindset' made her a target. The real origin for the small numbers was with the AOTC novel (not the Movie, and thus not Lucas) which was RA Salvatore's doing, but it was the RPG stuff and Ryan Kaufmann who also had a hand. The 'rationalists' get bent out of shape because things aren't running the way they think they ought to (rather than just accepting it happened and ignoring it, like was done with most of the EU shit people don't like.) Traviss jumped in, and we ended up getting massive, tribal polarization. In the end noone really 'won' that little fiasco, and it did more harm than good. But because MORE CLONES was the fixation, we had a completely uneccessary and pointless fight.

Like I said at SD.net awhile back, it wasn't the numbers (other than for really obsessive people) so much as that she went nuts when she was criticized for it. No one (again, except for really obsessive people) gets angry over Zahn writing that two hundred out of date warships would make a major difference in a galactic civil war. This probably has something to do with the fact that he doesn't publically fantasize about ripping out the tracheas of the ones who do point out why that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Granted I'm biased since her post-NJO writing was what finally killed my love of the EU.

[Veef]

IF anything killed Star Wars its going to be the nostalgia, which in a way is very ironic.

well what I mean is texture is how you create all the feels you get from a setting but substance is what actually drives the plot. People fell in love with the texture of the universe but started to let their imaginations overrun the substance. Even Lucas is guilty of this to a large degree with how he handled the prequels. Ya know not seeing the forest for the trees

[Darksi4190]

doesn't the main problem the EU has really just stem from Star Wars (being movies) being properties with a lot of texture but little substance? i mean yeah it's a dirty cobbled together looking universe but nobody ever goes on about the price of grain on Dantooine or anything really important

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The films (At least the OT and RotS) had plenty of "substance" to them. Do you mean that they didn't flesh out the universe correctly or something?