New Testingstan

adr wrote:the fact is the japanese DID NOT WANT war with america but were stonewalled in peace and deliberately provoked before pearl harbor

http://news.yahoo.com/did-fdr-provoke-p ... 00926.html

ww2, like iraq, vietnam, and every other war, was been based on LIES

japan didn't need our oil to sustain their economy; they needed it to sustain their overseas military operations.

if this were the alternate universe where the us kept selling oil to the japanese, you'd be making posts about how terrible it was that america knowingly sold oil to japan in order to fuel their war machine in asia

Darksi4190 wrote:Oh god that level was a bitch too. I think you'd get overtaken by the flames and destroyed if you so much as hit the walls once.

Yeah it sucked. The rest of the game was pretty easy when cheating, but cheating couldn't help me there.

Hey Stark speaking of "stuff in the game not in the movie" I remember the level in Super Star Wars (ANH edition) where Luke invaded the Sandcrawler and started murdering a bunch of Jawas. Yeah...

Question: would the movie have been better or worse if this was actually in it? :troll:

Aaron wrote:Ending Canadas contribution is an easy sell though. Considering it was a cruiser and the crew mutinied over going.

in adr's alternate reality mackenzie king and his ghost dogs reign over japan NEW KITCHENER

Oxymoron wrote:

Darksi4190 wrote:I mean at that point B29s had such a high flight ceiling that they were pretty much invulnerable to anti-aircraft fire right? Why not send a few flights to take out specific targets in the cities instead of nuking them? I mean what, were 200,000 Japanese civilians not worth the extra fuel?

Because at the time strategic bombing was so inaccurate at these altitudes that in order to destroy the targets you would have had to destroy the whole city anyway ?

Why do you think Strategic Bombing was so indiscriminate during WWII ? it wasn't for shit'n'giggles, but because it was perceived as "bomb the shit out of them at high altitude and let god sort'em'out" vs. "send the bombers un-escorted at low-altitude to be sitting ducks for the enemy's AA defenses just in order to achieve more precise bombing runs".

Dude should read up on the dam busters to see how difficult precision stuff was the. It didn't really become viable until Vietnam.

Lol, japan wasn't really our war anyways.

Do you really think the Japanese would have been able to stay in Korea if the US ceased fighting? The soviets ended up capturing fully half of it as it was.

uraniun235 wrote:japan didn't need our oil to sustain their economy; they needed it to sustain their overseas military operations.

they did the military operations for their economy

if this were the alternate universe where the us kept selling oil to the japanese, you'd be making posts about how terrible it was that america knowingly sold oil to japan in order to fuel their war machine in asia

it's not just the oil, the whole plan is pretty gross

fdr engineered an attack on america to bring us into a war for christ's sake


but indeed my goal is world peace

we should have been consistently friendly and generous toward other people so they aren't forced to the conclusion that annexing territory is the only way to preserve their prosperity (the japanese, like the germans, were the have-nots at the time, with trade prospects looking poor - in great part due to the depression - leaving force as their best option)

we should have been forgiving toward germany after ww1 so their economy wasn't so bad in the first place


any war is a failure of longer term policies

Kryten wrote:Do you really think the Japanese would have been able to stay in Korea if the US ceased fighting? The soviets ended up capturing fully half of it as it was.

well that's the thing

if america decides on a separate white peace then like as not the soviets will at least invade hokkaido, as they had plans to do

and possibly the whole island

and if not korea, then how about taiwan

and even if none of that happens, what does america do if japan disputes the ussr's claim to korea or sakhalin at the un when america's most recent documents make japan its legitimate owner and america broke its promise to the allies to see the war through to the end

and hey, lets say none of that happens

and the soviet union just finishes what it started and invades all of korea this time and now kim il sung ends up with millions more people and territory

gee whiz this counter-factual just gets better by the second

i don't think that japan had the might to reclaim korea, no

but that's not the point

Ok how does japan invading half the pacific rim help its economy? What were they looking for?

adr wrote:
the japanese, like the germans, were the have-nots at the time, with trade prospects looking poor - in great part due to the depression - leaving force as their best option

holy shit this is just a grotesque lie

by the 1930s the japanese controlled a huge overseas empire including korea, taiwan, a great deal of the pacific, and all of manchuria

their trade prospects may have looked poor because they may have alienated their two largest neighbours, china and the soviet union, by invading them multiple times

Is it wrong to invade china now

That's a big club lol

Screwing the Japanese out in the early 1900s was pretty classy tho

anyways point being that once you're arguing that germany was FORCED to invade poland because of the depression but sneaky FDR FORCED japan to launch a sneak attack on america and several other unrelated countries

you've crossed the line between 'legitimate counter-culture to sdn's militarist, western narrative' and 'incoherent anti-establishment circlejerk'

there's hard primary evidence that FDR engineered the japanese attack on the united states

Now, it's not hard to argue that the Treaty of Versailles pretty much directly led to the Nazis, but that doesn't mean that Germany was forced into invading Poland.

adr wrote:there's hard primary evidence that FDR engineered the japanese attack on the united states

Show us then.

adr wrote:

uraniun235 wrote:japan didn't need our oil to sustain their economy; they needed it to sustain their overseas military operations.

they did the military operations for their economy

adr wrote:economic growth isn't necessarily a good thing

i can't wait for anarchism to be the new thing that adr is interested in, that should make for some good reading

every war has a reason

even wars started by hitler and hirohito

adr wrote:every war has a reason

even wars started by hitler and hirohito

That doesn't make them good reasons. It's not a good reason for a man to kill another man to get some Air Jordans, yet it might not be a bad reason to kill a man who is trying to rape your wife.

fucking duh

Mayhaps stating the obvious isn't necessary, then?

Seriously, though, the Allies and Comintern had comparatively great reasons for getting into the war (self-preservation, prevention of genocide), despite any potential issues with FDR engineering a strike on Pearl Harbor (which I rather doubt; I've never seen good evidence on that).

uraniun235 wrote:i can't wait for anarchism to be the new thing that adr is interested in, that should make for some good reading

i think after that he gets swindled into a goon op going after pedophiles on reddit right

adr wrote:fdr engineered an attack on america to bring us into a war for christ's sake

Either that, or a complacent pre-military-industrial complex US military was legitimately caught with its pants down by a naval force from a country that had been at war for almost 10 years previous.

You're getting pretty deep into Truther territory here.

dude early 20th century anarchism is actually really interesting socially

Civil War Man wrote:You're getting pretty deep into Truther territory here.

btw 9/11 was also provoked and used as an excuse to make more bullshit wars


iraq didn't have wmd's nor was the report that they took babies out of the incubators in kuwait and leave them on the floor true

the north vietnamese navy did not attack a us ship in the gulf of tonkin on aug 4 1964

the lusitania was in fact carrying arms

the uss maine was almost certainly not attacked by the spanish


but with such a long history of proven bullshit i wanted to believe the 1941 stuff was lies too


looks like i rushed to judgment on that tho



BTW i stand by saying the atomic bombings were evil

as much as i am for yeah fuck america

i think the imperial japanese were shitbags and totally had it coming when donnie yen punched their faces in with kung fu

and this nonsense about engineering japang's attack is pure bs since way before then japan was already aggressively invading and butchering countries

don't whitewash this shit

don't let legitimate yeah fuck america-ness make you lose perspective

america or no america

hirohito or not

imperialism is imperialism and atrocity is atrocity