New Testingstan

There's an art gallery near here full of that kind of thing.

timmy wrote:Wacky waving arm inflatable tube man, eh?

I am confused

timmy wrote:Also, Rye posted up this link on facebook

Infinity Biscuit wrote:Thank you for sharing that

now I am even more confused

please explain my brain not work good sudden all of

that video was nightmare fuel

An unexpected crossover : http://archiveofourown.org/works/29215

you guys wanna know what i find the most stressful part of taking jobs?

billing the clients.

what amount should i ask for? (doubly so after the stuff is done, since at this point they might feel blindsided and not really be able to say no). when should i say it is due? should i nag them for it when they are late? but i hate nagging people


and right now i actually need the money too which makes it all the more of a pain

blargh

That's why you should create a "billing grid", to know how much to ask depending on what you did. At least for your own use.

adr wrote:what amount should i ask for? (doubly so after the stuff is done, since at this point they might feel blindsided and not really be able to say no).

Shouldn't this be negotiated ahead of time?

when should i say it is due?

When it's done? You could give them Net 30 (45, 60, etc. terms, too.) There's plenty of options. What works for you?

should i nag them for it when they are late? but i hate nagging people

Yes, you should, and you should probably impose penalties.

With due respect, isn't this sort of stuff small-business/contractor 101?

Oxymoron wrote:That's why you should create a "billing grid", to know how much to ask depending on what you did. At least for your own use.

i have a system and it works reasonably well

but personally, i don't believe in debt towards me. when i give/do something to/for you, that's it, i don't really expect and certainly wouldn't force you do anything in return. if you want to throw me a few bucks or something, i might take it, but if you don't, that's cool too

so the billing process something that clashes with how i usually operate in life, along with other personal social issues, and all that makes me feel awkward to bring it up with someone

phongn wrote:Shouldn't this be negotiated ahead of time?

usually it is, same feelings tho.

With due respect, isn't this sort of stuff small-business/contractor 101?

note that i said it is stressful rather than intellectually difficult; i know the answers to all these questions, i just don't like doing it. my heart beats a little faster when i have to write those emails, etc.

talking about work

sometimes i have praise for css

this is not one of those times.

adr wrote:should i nag them for it when they are late?

If by "nag" you mean "send burly men with baseball bats to their home" than yes, you should absolutely do that.

Because you're a Legitimate Businessman.

If you don't do something about people missing payments, many of them will just ignore it and not pay you.

Is this acceptable to you?

That should answer your questions about nagging.

Make them an offer they can't refuse.

Infinity Biscuit wrote:If you don't do something about people missing payments, many of them will just ignore it and not pay you.

This this this. In my previous role I was responsible for accounts receivable, and there was a long list of debtors that would never pay on time, or at all unless reminded. People are always less inclined to want to pay for services as opposed to goods.

Set up a pricing schedule that is the 'rack' rate you negotiate downward from. That's how everyone does it.

Infinity Biscuit wrote:If you don't do something about people missing payments, many of them will just ignore it and not pay you.

Is this acceptable to you?

Actually, my preferred solution there is to just eat that loss and politely decline future job offers from them, unless paid up front. (Which is a pretty good way to get them to fork over a back balance, /if/ and when they want something later.)

But right now I'm short on cash and looking at bills so gotta do something more immediate. Calling in the people who agreed to pay other stuff over the last month or two and haven't yet is the most likely way to get money together, but it just isn't something I enjoy.

adr wrote:

Infinity Biscuit wrote:If you don't do something about people missing payments, many of them will just ignore it and not pay you.

Is this acceptable to you?

Actually, my preferred solution there is to just eat that loss and politely decline future job offers from them, unless paid up front. (Which is a pretty good way to get them to fork over a back balance, /if/ and when they want something later.)

What the hell? Your time and reputation are not worth eating that loss. You risk word spreading that you are lax on accounts receivable and that you can be taken advantage of.

But right now I'm short on cash and looking at bills so gotta do something more immediate. Calling in the people who agreed to pay other stuff over the last month or two and haven't yet is the most likely way to get money together, but it just isn't something I enjoy.

You don't have to enjoy it but you hardly should feel bad about it. You are owed money and right now you need the money!

adr, are you completely impotent? You have done work for these people. They owe you money. Obviously Rogue is joking around with the whole leg breaking thing, though if it comes to that I have a few distant Italian relatives who I could call to help you out, but you should absolutely set measures in motion to get the money you are owed as a result of your labor. Man up and call a collection agency or contact a lawyer. Phongn is right about one thing. If you get a reputation for not pushing the issue because of squeamishness or whatever, you encourage others to take advantage of you in this manner.

phongn wrote:What the hell? Your time and reputation are not worth eating that loss. You risk word spreading that you are lax on accounts receivable and that you can be taken advantage of.

meh, it's only actually happened twice over the last three years, which is a pretty decent record in my book, and a lot less worry on my end - I just get to take it easy.

The reason I'm out of money now btw is special circumstances - I've been sticking with a startup that has had a long drought. The idea is brilliant and revenue is slowly starting to pick up, so perhaps we're near the end of it, but my savings account has gone completely dry and I still have to get enough cash to keep my minimum payments kept up in the mean time, hence I've started taking up the side jobs again. With added pressure this time as they aren't supplementing my income from one reliable contract and a nice cushion to fall back on for late people - they are the income, paycheck to paycheck.

But even so, I try to look at the bright side: I'm actually working less right now than I have been in months past. That's my real goal in life: to not have to work anymore.

You know what would help you not work as much?

Getting paid for the work you actually did do :L

Make all the excuses for it you want but you should at least acknowledge that you're just not good with confrontation. It almost seems as if you're in denial about the root cause here.

Darksi4190 wrote:If you get a reputation for not pushing the issue because of squeamishness or whatever, you encourage others to take advantage of you in this manner.

The majority of code I write has very permissive licences, to the point where if you want to download it, put your own name on it and give it away as your own, you can do that, I don't care. It's either trivial or that's not why I do it.

And that's one place where the billing disconnect happens. "can you add a button to my website"? null perspiration chummer, give me two minutes.

But no, you have to first spend all the time talking about money, and after you draw a red line, you can't back down or you lose all credibility (LoL). So it's not even worth it to me to bill less than $100, and who knows if things will go wrong, anyone with experience knows to always at least double your initial estimate for debugging, and I really don't feel like going through this now anyway. So I say sure, I'll do it $300, due upon completion, and I'll deliver by end of day tomorrow.

And the reply comes in: "Great! You're a life saver!"



Then I look at it, and turns out the buttons he wanted were already there, just commented out. So I hit backspace six times, save the file and say "I found some pieces already in there and turned them back on, check it, is that how you want it?"

And he says "PERFECT!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH! I just put your check in the mail, you should have it by friday!"




Don't you find that a little ridiculous? And the worst part: Mammon is whispering in my other ear, "he didn't even hesitate, you should have asked for even more".

My mum has to chase up people who owe her money for work she's done. It's a normal part of operating a business.

The thing about business is that a lot of it runs on credit. People might have the money, but they might not have it right now. But they still have to make their orders right, because they need those orders for a certain timeframe. You can't just not make an order, because then you don't have stuff for you and your workers to do.

adr wrote:Don't you find that a little ridiculous?

No.

maybe i'm just missing self esteem lol

From all you've posted so far that I can remember,

that's a distinct possibility, yes.

aw man richard dawkins

wow, 'it never did me any harm'

What's his angle here

I'm too tired to interpret the words properly