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Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:23 am
by evilsoup
Holy shit
I was in charge of writing the denial endorsement for every Marine that requested a waiver of this debt that had not been wounded in combat. There was an instance of a PFC Cocoa who paid child support every month. He had been receiving an entitlement to cover the child support amount that was incorrect, resulting in a total debt/overpayment for this PFC of around $12,000 with a $300 monthly liquidation on this debt at less than $800 biweekly and $200 to pay in child support. In his grievance letter, he said that he could not afford gas money to go and see his daughter because all of the money he was spending was on uniform items and left him with barely enough money to sustain his life. Oh yeah, and he was in the infantry too. His waiver was denied because a brand new PFC to the fleet should “have reasonably known” that he was not entitled to the money he received, even though he asked his superiors several times about the money he was getting. That was not even the half of it. I’ve seen countless Marines fall into the indebted hands of the United States government and have been afraid to leave the service because the debt that they have to pay due to incorrect entitlements sometimes runs to tens of thousands of dollars. This is a system that oppresses and enslaves individuals by instilling indebted control over their lives.
:psyduck:

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:39 am
by Crazedwraith
evilsoup wrote:are people actually making complaints like that
All changes from the books are bad. No exceptions.

I've not seen any complaints that 'greater agency' is bad not in those words at least. But I've seen complaints about her telling the lords of the vale who she is. Because what is Sansa who has spent 3 seasons learning not to trust anyone doing trust petyr and a bunch of lords of the vale she barely knows when if the lannisters find out will hunt her down and kill her for 'her part' in the purple wedding.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:50 pm
by Darksi4190
Well that does kind of make sense. Under those circumstances I don't think it was a good idea to reveal her identity.

Also, doesn't the Vale storyline in the books make Littlefinger out to be even more of a pedo creeper?

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:45 pm
by Ralin
They didn't have many other options without the Marillion subplot. No way, "Oh, she suddenly killed herself right after marrying me the lowborn whore monger who you hate and distrust and making me regent for her son" was going to fly.

And really, she's been learning to not trust anyone, but she's also been learning to lie and read people. The chances of the Lords Declarent turning her over to the Lannisters were vanishingly small. And she wasn't trusting them. Trusting them would be been telling them Littlefinger murdered Lysa Arynn and tried to get her to help cover it up.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:01 am
by F.J. Prefect, Esq
Ralin wrote:The more I think about it the angrier I get that they're changing things from the books to give Sansa more agency and wasting screen time on that which could be put to better use making Littlefinger look awesome and brilliant and pimping.
Is this a parody of a GoT fan

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:26 am
by Ralin
F.J. Prefect, Esq wrote:Is this a parody of a GoT fan
Are you suggesting that Littlefinger is not the real hero of the story and that Sansa isn't lucky to have him on her side?

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:15 am
by F.J. Prefect, Esq
Ralin wrote:
F.J. Prefect, Esq wrote:Is this a parody of a GoT fan
Are you suggesting that Littlefinger is not the real hero of the story and that Sansa isn't lucky to have him on her side?
Is this a parody of a GoT fan

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:43 am
by Stofsk
Everyone knows STANNIS is the real hero of the story

Anyway, my reaction to Oberyn's fate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDaDEi9KF0E#t=43

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:00 am
by Darksi4190
I'm pulling for Jon Snow myself.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:50 am
by Stofsk
Yeah, I hope he makes it too. Largely because I think he, Stannis, Bran and Dany are probably instrumental in defeating the White Walkers in some way (Stannis for being an experienced battle commander, Dany is obvious because of her Dragons; I'm pretty sure I know what Bran is up to North of the Wall, and I have a theory as to Jon's significance to the plot).

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:58 am
by Ralin
Stannis isn't really all that experienced. I mean before the series begins his military experience consists of, what, surviving a seige, taking Dragonstone and leading the royal fleet against the Ironborn? Which is better than nothing, sure, but the first one relied more on him out-stubborning his enemies and I'm fairly sure he had the advantage with the other two.

There really aren't a whole lot of experienced people in Westeros, all things considered. A friend of mine has a theory that this and all the relatively young rulers isn't normal. Robert's Rebellion killed off a lot of the older nobility and left a bunch of second sons and others who were never supposed to inherit jack in charge of Great Houses.

Whiiich is part of why Tywin seems so damned formidable. The man is smart and competent and ~hard~, but he's not THAT much smarter and more competent and harder than everyone else. And he's not as smart as the legend he has built up around himself. But he does have decades of experience that most of his enemies don't, and that makes him look like the God of Men by comparison.

And hell, he still managed to start off the war getting his ass handed to him by a fourteen year old.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:10 am
by Stofsk
Ralin wrote:Stannis isn't really all that experienced.
It is a bit of an informed ability, but the series is full of them and at the same time you list several campaigns he was involved with that he led successfully.

But the other point which you raise is that successful or not, he is battle-hardened when compared to everyone else who remains.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:09 pm
by Crazedwraith
Ralin wrote: There really aren't a whole lot of experienced people in Westeros, all things considered. A friend of mine has a theory that this and all the relatively young rulers isn't normal. Robert's Rebellion killed off a lot of the older nobility and left a bunch of second sons and others who were never supposed to inherit jack in charge of Great Houses.
That's not really true. At least not for the 8 Biggest houses. After the rebellion, you still had Tywin, Prince Doran, Robert Arryn, Hoster Tully, Mace Tyrell and probably Balon Greyjoy. It is true for Ned Stark who went from second son to ruling lord of the north and the Barratheon boys. Robert going from lord to king and Stannis and Renly being elevated to Lords.

It may be more true for the lesser northern houses. Several lordling companions of Ned were killed (at the tower of joy especially) I think Brandon Stark managed to get a few of his friends killed with he walked right up to the red keep demanding Rheagar's head. Th heir apparent of the vale was also killed in the wars.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:43 pm
by Ralin
So Tywin, impotent schemer, Hand of the King and dead by the time the books start, incapacitated on account of dying by the time it matters again, bumbling oaf and guy whose rebellion was crushed like a bug. Not seeing how that undermines my point. And it was even worse on the lesser houses that got fed into the meat grinder. On my tablet now; I'll look up specifics later. But the point is that Westeros as of the books was lacking in military and political talent compared to what it normally had. Really it's a miracle Ned Stark ruled as well as he did. Jon Arynn was a good foster father, it seems.

That said, yes, Stannis is relatively experienced compared to most. Which is probably the reason Tywin considered him the real threat right from the beginning.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:54 pm
by Crazedwraith
You said everyone had been killed off and left a lot of unprepared second sons in positions they weren't supposed to have. I pointed out that's not the case. How is that besides the point?

If you want to claim the crop of nobility was worse off in war of five kings, you'd have to prove the previous lot were actually more competent and were what the seven kingdoms 'normally had'. Which you haven't.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:36 pm
by adr
so i really wish i was a full-blown virgin. the way i see it i can claim the title since that was before i was baptized which is like the reset but still i know of what happened before

i can proudly say i've never consumed the alcohol nor the tobacco nor the coffee nor the tea. not a single drop of any of it not even before

yet there will always be the asterisk next to my recreated precious virginity


i didn't even consider it worth the time i wasted before now and now the worth has became outright negative :(

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:54 am
by Ralin
Crazedwraith wrote:You said everyone had been killed off and left a lot of unprepared second sons in positions they weren't supposed to have. I pointed out that's not the case. How is that besides the point?

If you want to claim the crop of nobility was worse off in war of five kings, you'd have to prove the previous lot were actually more competent and were what the seven kingdoms 'normally had'. Which you haven't.
I'm trying to remember examples but truthfully I'm drawing a blank.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:47 am
by magic princess
evilsoup wrote:ugh
some woman who runs a women's shelter on the radio, seems like exactly the kind of person who I should be nodding along to and agreeing with
but no, today they're talking about domestic violence against men, and she's spending so much time trying to minimise the problem
this isn't the first time it's happened either; the last time this program was talking about this, they had these four domestic vioence experts going on and on about how some male abusers pretend to have been hit by their victims in order to cover themselves... while they had a male survivor of an abusive relationship with a woman on the other side of the phone line
Resistance to oppression is legitimate. Women frequently have hectoring and fighting with their spouses as their only way to express their yearning for liberty and rights in a deeply patriarchal and sexist society. It is a perfectly legitimate behaviour, and it is not something that should be punished by jail time or legal sentences. Rather, sort of like in South Africa, it should be handled by a Truth and Reconciliation Commission with the power to forgive what is technically a crime, when the patriarchal system is finally dismantled. Therefore, it would be acknowledged as unlawful, but morally acceptable within the context of the old patriarchal oppressive social order, and something that must be forgiven and buried into the past moving forward in a non-patriarchal society.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:45 pm
by Ralin
magic princess wrote:
evilsoup wrote:ugh
some woman who runs a women's shelter on the radio, seems like exactly the kind of person who I should be nodding along to and agreeing with
but no, today they're talking about domestic violence against men, and she's spending so much time trying to minimise the problem
this isn't the first time it's happened either; the last time this program was talking about this, they had these four domestic vioence experts going on and on about how some male abusers pretend to have been hit by their victims in order to cover themselves... while they had a male survivor of an abusive relationship with a woman on the other side of the phone line
Resistance to oppression is legitimate. Women frequently have hectoring and fighting with their spouses as their only way to express their yearning for liberty and rights in a deeply patriarchal and sexist society. It is a perfectly legitimate behaviour, and it is not something that should be punished by jail time or legal sentences. Rather, sort of like in South Africa, it should be handled by a Truth and Reconciliation Commission with the power to forgive what is technically a crime, when the patriarchal system is finally dismantled. Therefore, it would be acknowledged as unlawful, but morally acceptable within the context of the old patriarchal oppressive social order, and something that must be forgiven and buried into the past moving forward in a non-patriarchal society.
Wow.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:22 pm
by evilsoup
I'm talking about men who have serious physical injuries and psychological scars from years of abuse
but no, of course, men can never be victims

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:42 pm
by Crazedwraith
these women were just fighting the patriachy soup. All victms of abuse even male ones are ultimately just victims of the mancentric manocracy/

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:48 pm
by adr
It is war, nasty things happen. Sometimes actions need to be considered in context for the greater good.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:56 pm
by Darksi4190
*squints* Also did she just equate the current status of women in the U.S. with that of blacks under Apartheid?

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:04 pm
by evilsoup
Minimising the existence of male victims of domestic abuse is the exact opposite of fighting the patriarchy. You are enforcing toxic traditional gender roles by implying that men can't be victims of women.

and it isn't a fucking war. Using that kind of rhetoric might be useful in some cases, but it's fundamentally untrue (where are the armies?) and if you let it get the better of you then you can end up being part of the problem.

Re: Testing Chat Episode VI: Return of the Chat

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:06 pm
by Crazedwraith
Err. I'm not sure how much of that is directed at me. So I'd like to clarify my post was in jest and parody of magic princess. Hence the futurama quote.

I agree with you Evilsoup.