Godammed SDN

[Oxymoron]

I've run the numbers :



Explanation : if the electrical resistance is a fixed number (which it should be on a crude electric stove, maybe not if it is a sophisticated model), halving the tension gives a fourth of the power output / heat.


Mind you, these calcs are good in DC, but I don't know if they hold for AC. Shouldn't be that much different, though.


[/ex-electrical engineering student]


In short, if my calculations are correct and if electric kettles manufacturers are dumb, electric kettles are 4 time more powerful in Europe than they are in the US.

[The Spartan]

In short, if my calculations are correct and if electric kettles manufacturers are dumb

I'm not much good with electrical engineering, having not studied it past an introductory circuits course and so I can't add anything past what you've posted, but I suspect the second part of the above quoted sentence just might hold true.

It's just a suspicion mind you, but not entirely unfounded. For example*, toilets in America, at least for a time, were poorly regarded if they weren't the older kind and when compared to say, newer, Japanese models. What had happened was that the government had mandated a lower gallons/flush amount and the American manufacturers, being cheap and lazy, just changed the amount that would be stored in the tank and then flushed. Something along those lines. Japanese manufacturers, on the other hand, redesigned both that and the path and profile of the outflow pipe to design around the reduced amount of water being flushed. The result is that you got some serious suction on the Japanese models that took The Item away efficiently, compared to the American models, which made people long for the older water-wasteful models.

That all said, I have one (an electric kettle I mean) and, as far as I can tell, there's no problem with it getting water boiling. Though I don't know how well they do in Europe since the last time I visited my relatives over there I was 10(?) and my grandfather, at least, still boiled water in a stovetop kettle.



*This all according to my fluid mechanics professor.

[adr-admin]

whoa there was just someone on the local news named weyoun

[Oxymoron]

@ The Spartan : My mother has an electric kettle. It can boil approximately 1L of water in roughly 2-3 minutes (I'm not sure), compared to 8-10 minutes on the gaz stove. With the kettle, a mug of water (approximately 0.2L) is heated is 30-50 seconds. This is in France (230 V, 50 Hz) with a 2000-2400 W nominal power output for the kettle.

[Aaron]

Exactly. If it was faster to boil on the stove, I wouldn't use it. Nor buy instant oatmeal.

[Aaron]

"The Obama is mother, The Obama is father"

Sums up his fanboys I think. Nit especially.

[starku]

@ The Spartan : My mother has an electric kettle. It can boil approximately 1L of water in roughly 2-3 minutes (I'm not sure), compared to 8-10 minutes on the gaz stove. With the kettle, a mug of water (approximately 0.2L) is heated is 30-50 seconds. This is in France (230 V, 50 Hz) with a 2000-2400 W nominal power output for the kettle.

this is my experience also

[The Spartan]

I didn't say the stove was faster. I was saying that the kettles in Europe may indeed by more powerful than the ones in America, i.e, I'm speculating that they weren't redesigned to accommodate the difference in electrical grids.

When I said:

That all said, I have one (an electric kettle I mean) and, as far as I can tell, there's no problem with it getting water boiling. Though I don't know how well they do in Europe since the last time I visited my relatives over there I was 10(?) and my grandfather, at least, still boiled water in a stovetop kettle.

It was referring to over twenty years ago and a very poor old man who still rolled his own cigarettes. You'll also notice I use an electric kettle.

Well, when I'm brewing tea, for instance. I'll still boil things on my stove top (I have gas) if I'm going to then cook in the water. Depends on what I'm making.

[The Spartan]

I should add that I tried using the kettle to boil water to make pasta in one of those tubes that was supposed to cook it by just pouring the water over it and sealing it for a few minutes. Did not work...

I'm not terribly surprised that it didn't, but, eh, it was I think ten bucks and worth a shot.

[Aaron]

Lol i remember those. What a scam.

[Oxymoron]

Boil the water in the kettle, pour the boiling water into the "casserole" (?), put noodles in boiling water, continue cooking on the stove.

Pasta cooking time halved. May not be worth the effort, though.

[The Spartan]

That might be too much trouble for pasta, but according to Alton Brown, if you have a model with a wide top so it can be cleaned easily, it's a good way to keep stock or wine hot for risotto. Among other things.

[starku]

needs more lime scale :V

[adr-admin]

i have to admit i am enjoying calling barack obama (and abraham lincoln) imperial tyrants a little more than i probably should

[Flagg]

i have to admit i am enjoying calling barack obama (and abraham lincoln) imperial tyrants a little more than i probably should

Trolling is fun.

[uraniun235]

@ The Spartan : My mother has an electric kettle. It can boil approximately 1L of water in roughly 2-3 minutes (I'm not sure), compared to 8-10 minutes on the gaz stove. With the kettle, a mug of water (approximately 0.2L) is heated is 30-50 seconds. This is in France (230 V, 50 Hz) with a 2000-2400 W nominal power output for the kettle.

Yeah, there's no way you could sell a 120V kettle in the US that drew over two kilowatts. That would pretty quickly trip the breakers for most 120V circuits, especially if there was anything else also drawing power from it. You could theoretically sell one that ran on 240V, but the vast majority of people aren't going to have a 240V outlet that's easily accessible and not already in use.

That said, you can run a lot of appliances off 120V. My washing machine is on a 120V circuit (granted, it's drawing hot water from the 240V-powered water heater), the refrigerator is on 120V, I know my microwave is rated for at least a kilowatt, and I know the big air conditioner I have draws something like 1200-1300W at full blast. You're generally good for up to 15 amps on a circuit, although some 120V circuits have 20 amp breakers.

Big suckers like the electric stove and the electric dryer tend to get their own dedicated 240V circuits. Mine each have a 40 amp circuit.

[adr-admin]

jesus christ patrick degan's strategy for my secession hijack is apparently to just bury everyone in meaningless text

[adr-admin]

i think wartime leaders get waaaay too much credit

fucking tyrants

[Aaron]

So whats the deal with the civil war?

In hindsight, letting the South fuck off might have been the best option, given they've bogged you down in about every way possible for the entire existence of your country. Obviously slavery wouldn't have ended there but I wonder if they just would have collapsed later on and gotten reabsorbed.

[adr-admin]

Maybe, but I don't know.

I kinda think slavery and the confederation were both doomed on their own. The confederation wasn't a particularly strong organization and slavery had economic pressures coming - increasing industrialization, new technology, and whatnot I think would render slavery as uncompetitive. As technology allows farms to consolidate and replace human labor with machines, the demand for slaves would go down.... but the number of people would still be there, and I think that would lead to reform inevitably.

But that's just my gut feeling. My knowledge of history is high school, wikipedia, and a handful of internet posts... economics just about the same, with the addition of the educational films PBS was airing (Economics U$A that I've been talking about a lot).

Until today. They stopped it I might go down to the local station and see if I can borrow the rest of that.



tbh the main reason I get into debates like this is less about real world history and more thinking of policies in my fictional/imaginary nation.

Unlike the Ron Paul stuff, where in November, I'll make some kind of decision on this stuff that affects the real world so it's more serious (and i'll prolly be undecided there until like Nov 1), stuff like discussing the right of secession is just for fun and/or daydream story ideas.


worldbuilding

[Count Chocula]

Current and frequency are important. A 50Hz 230V circuit is about 15% less efficient than a 60Hz 230V circuit. So we're left with power, P=IsquaredR. However, this can be cumbersome for back of envelope figuring. A handy rule of thumb is Watt's equation W=V*A or P=V*I

US Circuit, 15A breaker: Watts=110V*15A --> W=1650
European circuit, 15A breaker: Watts=(220V*15A).85 --> W=2805

So assuming a 15 Amp breaker in both cases, an electric teakettle in Europe will boil water faster than one will in the US. Which is why we put our teakettles on our 240V electric stoves.

[zhaktronz]

So the lesson is America is fucking I'M A JUGGALO WOOP WOOP!

[Count Chocula]

No, we're more efficient. 60Hz is better. 110V sucks but won't kill you if you touch it. It stings but 220V locks your muscles. Ouch. Burn. Die. Don't change that light switch!

We save the best 240V/60Hz stuff for our water heaters and stoves and clothes dryers and air conditioners. Tesla immigrated to the US because Europe was I'M A JUGGALO WOOP WOOP. Your motors use more energy and copper and resources. How green!

EDIT and 110V at 15A is nonlethal goodness for blenders, microwaves, Christmas lights, computers, cell phone chargers, did I mention blenders? Still more efficient per Watt at 60 Hz than Eurotrash 50 Hz.

[Zod]

No, we're more efficient. 60Hz is better. 110V sucks but won't kill you if you touch it. It stings but 220V locks your muscles. Ouch. Burn. Die. Don't change that light switch!

We save the best 240V/60Hz stuff for our water heaters and stoves and clothes dryers and air conditioners. Tesla immigrated to the US because Europe was I'M A JUGGALO WOOP WOOP. Your motors use more energy and copper and resources. How green!

do you get your knowledge of europe from watching the history channel's ww2 documentaries

[Count Chocula]

no because they were all bombed to shit and nobody except nazis and the red skull had electricity duh