Godammed SDN

[Veef]

i'm glad that Go Nagai invented the breast missile so girls can get into that whole projecting parts of their bodies into other people's business as a weapon thing

what would Freud say about that

[starku]

You don't want to know what Freud would say about you, seriously

[Veef]

sometimes a beam sabre is just a beam sabre

[Stofsk]

i may not necessarily agree with bakky, but it's nice to hear someone analyse a hugely popular film instead of gushing over it for like the millionth time

maybe it's just the fact i majored in lit which allows me to compartmentalise my enjoyment of a film with the furrowed brow HMM MAYBE THE BAD GUY IS THE ONLY GAY GUY IN THIS FILM thing bakky has pointed out and not have the latter spoil the former

[adr-admin]

hmm simon_jester has done the "you're wasting your time" in two threads i've seen this week now

[Veef]

oh i don't know about Loki being the only gay guy

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Why should I care? The were lots of big splosions and there was a fight scene where Scarlett Johannsen kicks three russian's ass in a Little Black Dress.

There was a plot?

When people say that about Michael Bay, they suffer at the hands of derision. What makes Whedon so special?

[Oxymoron]

He made "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Firefly".

[Veef]

Because characters in Michael Bay movies are usually unlikable assholes

and so much of his directing style is all about the money shot with everything in between being filler

like even the Crank movies have better character development and charm

and those movies are about fucking your girlfriend in front of a bus full of schoolgirls so you won't die

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Because characters in Michael Bay movies are usually unlikable assholes

and so much of his directing style is all about the money shot with everything in between being filler

Questor said nothing about character development. He just mentioned explosions and a hot girl kicking ass. Try again.

How much Character development is in a comic book movie with 5+ leads? I doubt there's enough to satisfy anyone in that department.

Edit: Transformers may as well be a comic book movie given how ridiculous it is. That's what we're referring to, likely. Most people seem to forget Bay's The Island, his most tame movie in the action department and most mature. It's also one of his few works with themes.

[Agent Bert Macklin]

He made "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Firefly".

I won't touchthe former and my like for he latter has been waning over the years. I think we should also mention "Cabin in the Woods," where he breached hackery territory.

[Veef]

Questor said nothing about character development. He just mentioned explosions and a hot girl kicking ass.

Bay is pretty bad at hot girls kicking ass and I question his execution on explosions

Try again.

たった1曲のロックンロール..

How much Character development is in a comic book movie with 5+ leads? I doubt there's enough to satisfy anyone in that department.

there is a craft to movie making

i know that can be hard to swallow but it's true

and while my perception and huge crush on Tony Stark in the movies may color my judgement on his character in the Avengers

throughout the course of the film, I feel like they presented each hero from movies I hadn't seen as fairly unique individuals who all had their own flaws they had to overcome to save the day

like i was rooting for them in the end

I mean I know they're gonna win, it's a movie afterall

but you have to fool me into liking these people

just of a little bit

it's what people complain about with the Prequels

in end, a movie about the fall of Anakin to the dark side doesn't work because he's such an asshole throughout it's hard to care outside of gut reactions

Likewise in Transformers, Sam Witwicky and his parents and his girlfriend and basically EVERYONE ELSE is such an irritating bunch it's like I don't want to suffer through bad comedy just for robot fights

I dunno I just want most of the movie to be something I can enjoy and not just the explosion parts

cuz I can just watch the trailer over and over again for action

[Bakustra]

i may not necessarily agree with bakky, but it's nice to hear someone analyse a hugely popular film instead of gushing over it for like the millionth time

maybe it's just the fact i majored in lit which allows me to compartmentalise my enjoyment of a film with the furrowed brow HMM MAYBE THE BAD GUY IS THE ONLY GAY GUY IN THIS FILM thing bakky has pointed out and not have the latter spoil the former

and i'm loving defending my positions

oh i don't know about Loki being the only gay guy

Ahahaha yes

anyways, knubs, I think that your analysis of cabin in the woods also applies to avengers- the argument over phase 2 is actually a pretty good one that whedon completely abandons

because the chitauri aren't really presented as a threat to the avengers, nor is loki, but rather the conflict is about whether the superhero ideal will triumph and phase 2 could have been a big part of that without the contrived "send a nuke in and we'll use it as a sanitary WMD lol" climax actually in the movie. that would require making fury more of a neutral/hostile figure, which might not be such a bad idea as long as we ensure that he's definitely not villainous

anyways, superhero movies can definitely be about more than the surface- iron man 2 is, on the surface, militaristic propaganda, but on a deeper level, it has a far more interesting message

[Agent Bert Macklin]

Veef:

Oh, no doubt Transformers has a lot of bullshit and at times it's a chore to get to the good shit. I just question the claim that the Avengers has a decent amount of character development given the characters present are boring. I recently broke my "no more comic book movies" rule and watched the various Marvel movies to prepare for the Avengers. I found none that interesting outside of the production values. If I'm not enamored by their independent ventures, how will that be possible when they're sharing screen time with one another?

As for Bay, I'll always prefer the direction he took in framing action in The Island and especially Transformers 3. The latter had the burden of using a 3D rig, so the shaky cam (which people detest for some reason) was limited. You got to savor the destruction of Chicago and the demise of the Decepticons. I honestly can't think of any memorable sequences from Whedon's Firefly and Serenity outside of shock scenes and that one spaceship maneuver in the Firefly pilot.

Bakustra: I'll be checking out The Avengers one day. I don't know when, though.

[Veef]

I have no interest in watching anything Firefly related because I wasn't enamored with Cowboy Bebop and I hate being part of the popular nerd crowd

so i can't really judge how well he does barefoot women fighting chunky dudes outside of the Serenity trailer and Black Widow doing her thing

I admit I am giving Avengers some leeway just because I want to realistic about what must have been massive constraints placed on the project

I can't even imagine the uncomfortable meetings with investors and producers over what could and could not happen in the movie

whereas most Michael Bay films existed with no prior body of work outside of his other movies

as Transformers is one of those franchises without a real creator or overall narrative drive, I think it falls under the same label of being enough of a reboot to be basically standalone like Armageddon or Bad Boys

i know that's hard to argue given Transformers is part of pop culture but still

[RogueIce]

People can't even imagine the existence of others smarter than them

Because there is no such person.

maybe it's just the fact i majored in lit which allows me to compartmentalise my enjoyment of a film with the furrowed brow HMM MAYBE THE BAD GUY IS THE ONLY GAY GUY IN THIS FILM thing bakky has pointed out and not have the latter spoil the former

maybe it's just the fact i majored in lit

i majored in lit

[/sdn]

No seriously you don't analyze movies like this based on "themes" or "characters" or "plot" but by how many Gs Iron Man's suit can pull, or the gigatons of Thor's hammer. You should know this, Mister SDN Moderator.

Likewise in Transformers, Sam Witwicky and his parents and his girlfriend and basically EVERYONE ELSE is such an irritating bunch it's like I don't want to suffer through bad comedy just for robot fights

Hey hey hey.

Captain/Major/Colonel Lennox and the other NEST dudes were pretty cool. I'd watch the movies if it were about just them and the Transformers.

Which I heard is what TF4 is going to do.

[Akhlut]

speaking about movies, avengers is disturbingly fascist in its approach to superheroes, what with the real conflict being between a group of oligarchs and a single despot as to who will rule the world, ending in the world of superheroes. discuss.

Well, how would you go about making a superhero movie that does not have some little twinge of fascism in it? The entire point behind most superheroes is that they have something about them that makes them superior to regular people in some manner via their superpowers (and don't tell me Iron Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye don't have superpowers, given their abilities throughout the movie) and how they usually opt to act outside bureaucracy to get things done.

As for the Avengers movie itself, though, I'd say that the Avengers themselves were emphatically not fighting to see who would control the world.

Let's examine Thor, firstly: the one Avenger probably most likely to be able to rule the earth also emphatically says his people shouldn't rule earth, and he willingly goes off planet numerous times instead of trying to establish any sort of overlordship.

The Hulk: Bruce Banner purposefully keeps away from everyone and doesn't want to be in a position of power over anyone.

Captain America: he seems to spout some line about freedom and democracy every time he's on screen when he's not missing out on cultural references past WWII. However, given that he's a white guy from the 1940s who doesn't seem to have a problem with a black man being in charge (both Nick Fury and, assumably, Obama), nor with women's lib, well, he certainly doesn't seem fascist to me.

Hawkeye and Black Widow: Potentially troublesome, as we don't know who these assassins have worked for, as they seem fairly mercenary and given a few references, may have been involved in perpetuating or enabling potentially fascist policies throughout the world.

Iron Man: Another one who is potentially troubling, given his former status as an integral part of the military-industrial complex. However, given that he has withdrawn from that and seems to be working on being someone who isn't trying to rule the world, we can say he probably isn't bent on world domination.

So, I do not think the Avengers was about fascism, at least as far as the Avengers themselves are concerned. I think about the worst you can say is that they aren't out there overthrowing dictatorships over the world and trying to institute civil rights everywhere. However, at least one of their members probably couldn't do that anyway without there being some serious problems (Thor), while Tony Stark would be too obvious if he did that and would probably be assassinated for it.

[Akhlut]

so i can't really judge how well he does barefoot women fighting chunky dudes outside of the Serenity trailer and Black Widow doing her thing

I like how he continually makes strong women characters, but nearly all of them are young waifish white women. Why not older women of color?

[Agent Bert Macklin]

maybe it's just the fact i majored in lit

i majored in lit

[/sdn]

Heh. I used to think the courses were useless until I took one recently that was taught exceptionally well: excellent assigned readings and discussion. We had no lectures. High school was riddled with shit that I was told had to mean this and that and my interpretations were wrong. The essays in high school were limited and could not be about what I wanted. I would have never read Candide, Things Fall Apart, The Metamorphosis, and The Death of Ivan Ilyich had I not taken the course.

[Aaron]

I have no interest in watching anything Firefly related because I wasn't enamored with Cowboy Bebop and I hate being part of the popular nerd crowd

so i can't really judge how well he does barefoot women fighting chunky dudes outside of the Serenity trailer and Black Widow doing her thing

I admit I am giving Avengers some leeway just because I want to realistic about what must have been massive constraints placed on the project

I can't even imagine the uncomfortable meetings with investors and producers over what could and could not happen in the movie

whereas most Michael Bay films existed with no prior body of work outside of his other movies

as Transformers is one of those franchises without a real creator or overall narrative drive, I think it falls under the same label of being enough of a reboot to be basically standalone like Armageddon or Bad Boys

i know that's hard to argue given Transformers is part of pop culture but still

Firefly had less barefoot bullshit, I think River only did it once, with a gun.

[Veef]

maybe Whedon should direct a TF movie because the Transformers are barefoot all the time

[starku]

I hear superheroes were effective deconstructed 30 years ago

So none of this should be new or surprising

[Veef]

lol Shep got spoilered by Zor's thread :troll:

maybe you gotta stay off the nerd forums if you don't want spoilers

[Aaron]

so i can't really judge how well he does barefoot women fighting chunky dudes outside of the Serenity trailer and Black Widow doing her thing

I like how he continually makes strong women characters, but nearly all of them are young waifish white women. Why not older women of color?

Zoe?

[Stofsk]

she's the exception that proves the rule