Lament 2: Cry Harder

[Aaron]

There's just no compassion, no understanding, no humanity to the board, it's liberalism divorced from its basic tenants. Just idealogues pitching a fit.

[Bakustra]

man, at this point i'm angry enough to want to try socratic irony out on those assholes to lead them into a rousing defense of state-endorsed terror and religious tolerance

but it's not like they're capable of recognizing anything bad about it when it spills from their lips, so it'd be in vain in the end

also i'm banned and all that so

[Flagg]

I love all of the really bad analogies. "If you think the makers of the video are assholes it's just like lynching blacks or Matthew Shepherd!"

[Bakustra]

hey flagg a little something for your argument with magis: markets and democracy are fundamentally opposed- one relies on equal distribution of power, the other is built around the idea that power ought to be concentrated. therefore, markets should have minimal influence on democracies.

another good one if you don't mind cribbing from socialists- capitalism is inherently unstable because it is to the benefit of capitalists to minimize their payroll costs for profitability, but this reduces the ability of people to buy their products, necessitating another squeeze, ending only when society implodes or when some other entity steps in to stop things. this has been observed in nature, by the way- compensation has shrunk over the last thirty years, prosperity was financed on credit, and when credit dried up, amazingly people stopped buying as much stuff and the economy went into a full-blown recession and "jobless recovery". technically this is called a "overproduction crisis" by capitalists, but you might as well call it the fundamental contradiction of capitalism.

I love all of the really bad analogies. "If you think the makers of the video are assholes it's just like lynching blacks or Matthew Shepherd!"

attempting to establish outreach with muslims is exactly like supporting the kkk

[adr]

but the obvious counter is that markets are democratic because the consumers pick winners and losers by voting with their wallets

[Bakustra]

but the obvious counter is that markets are democratic because the consumers pick winners and losers by voting with their wallets

well you would emphasize the difference between "one person, one vote" and "one dollar, one vote" then

enough to keep the spear-carriers of the bourgeoisie on their toes

[Flagg]

but the obvious counter is that markets are democratic because the consumers pick winners and losers by voting with their wallets

Yeah, but democracy means every vote counts equally (supposedly, except we have states where your vote for president means dick and others where it means everything) while the rich can afford to vote with their wallet alot more. Not to mention Government subsidies keeping food prices artificially high.

[Bakustra]

"So because some of us have done bad things to them they get a pass if they are mad at all of us? Included when they kill people that haven't harmed or spoken out against them? I don't hate all of them, I hate the assholes who kill innocent people because of some insult to their fairy in the sky. Our reasons for going to the Mid East might not much better, but in many cases they ask for our help and then bitch when we offer it."

i cannae hold the irony any longer, cap'n

[adr]

and also the capitalists are the ones who are the gateway to introducing (and killing) new ideas which sucks; in a democracy anyone should be able to introduce stuff for consideration

[Bakustra]

somebody please post this article in the fast and furious thread

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2 ... ous-truth/

im dying here

[Flagg]

I one upped you. I posted the official websites description of the Office of Inpector General.

[Bakustra]

I one upped you. I posted the official websites description of the Office of Inpector General.

no, this article literally points out that everything about the right-wing version of fast and furious is a goddamned lie

gunwalking is not what they say it is, the investigators on-site complained that the DoJ wasn't willing to prosecute

and so on

[Flagg]

Posted.

[Losonti Tokash]

honestly baks i am surprised a banning stopped you

[Bakustra]

Posted.

Thanks. Now I'm gonna blow off steam with something incredibly lame, semi-offensive?, and in-jokey.

We descended towards the Earth, our former home, the home of our enemy- Neo-Queen Serenity, and her abominable empire. We had driven our Crystal into the surface of the Earth and expunged her dominion, but defenders still lurked within her palace. We were scouting it out, admiring the devastation, when we saw a figure emerge from the gates of the palace. We landed and looked out. Velour jacket. Golden sparkle- no. No. It was hardly imaginable. The Ultimate Hustler, here? The Hustler approached through the dust, and I raised my hand briefly.

Brother Rubeus leapt on the offensive, fires crackling around his hands. Then the Hustler spoke. "I ain't ever heard of gettin' the clap from handys," he remarked. The flames died, and Rubeus crumpled. Esmeraude charged forth, but the Hustler said, "Damn, from the fishy smell I thought y'all were the Dead Moon." Stunned, she could only listen as the Hustler continued, "And usin' costume jewelry for bling ain't impressing nobody." She, too, fell before the onslaught. With no Droids to delay the Hustler, Saphir announced the unleashing of his Beast Hand. The Hustler merely smirked. "Beast Hand? Look more like a busta hand to me. And no wonder your dick be rottin' away." I stood alone, and the Hustler turned to face me. I braced myself with all my might, till I heard, "Normally I'd be sayin' somethin' about lustin' after a woman who want ya dead, but that's every girl." and all was lost. "Wiseman!" I cried. "Wiseman, attend to me!" And our court magician appeared at my side, but suddenly he lifted his hood and underneath was the Hustler! "Ain't no wisdom in advising a luddy like you." He paused. "And yo third eye look more like a blackhead." And all I could think was "Goddamn."

(Somewhat explained, but not excused)

honestly baks i am surprised a banning stopped you

sneaking in would be more than a little pathetic and i am just prideful enough not to seek out any sort of return

[Crazedwraith]

OH Why did I go get involved in the muslim thread, why? *headdesk*

[Oxymoron]

OH Why did I go get involved in the muslim thread in a TEO discussion, why? *headdesk*

FTFY

[Crazedwraith]

Most kind. Thank you.

[adr]

crazedwraith: the problem with hate speech laws is two things: 1) they can create a chilling effect on non-hate stuff and 2) the government might interprete it too broadly (while, of course, turning a blind eye to the hateful propaganda they agree with today - american muslims calling for jihad get droned or decades in prison while other assholes calling for more war on muslims go on national tv without fear)

and like let's say it is illegal to say anything anti-semitic. but if you've ever been an an israel vs palestine debate, you'll know that label gets thrown around A LOT. what if a judge agrees? the fear of such might be enough to silence a pro-palestinean indivudual from even carrying on with the argument.

so i wouldn't want to go down that path



but if you respect other people as people you would prolly hold your own tongue sometimes. you can respect someone and still disagree strongly with their politics and talk about it. but you're not likely to insult them just because you can or otherwise engage with the really hateful hate speech



well how do get this attitude in other people? that's the hard part but i'm sure a good start is to go ahead and set a good example, speak out against the underlying feelings, demand those in washington set a good example too in both words and actions

[Losonti Tokash]

What I love most about this thread isn't the people who think actions occur in a vaccum devoid of any context, or even the white men in powerful, wealthy nations who directly compare themselves to oppressed ethnic groups in the United States. No, it's the fact that thanks to contributions from people like Jub and Crackpot, I could literally start reposting stuff from Stormfront and FreeRepublic and no one would notice.

i don't know if this counts as "throwing down the gauntlet" but it's all i kept thinking while reading through it

[Crazedwraith]

crazedwraith: the problem with hate speech laws is two things: 1) they can create a chilling effect on non-hate stuff and 2) the government might interprete it too broadly (while, of course, turning a blind eye to the hateful propaganda they agree with today - american muslims calling for jihad get droned or decades in prison while other assholes calling for more war on muslims go on national tv without fear)

and like let's say it is illegal to say anything anti-semitic. but if you've ever been an an israel vs palestine debate, you'll know that label gets thrown around A LOT. what if a judge agrees? the fear of such might be enough to silence a pro-palestinean indivudual from even carrying on with the argument.

so i wouldn't want to go down that path

What do you mean in this first section? That people will be so worried about falling afoul of hate laws, that they just won't say anything at all?

As to your second point, well yeah, its a law, that's open to abuse. Fair point but there has to be a system in place, like for all laws, to stop that happen. Just because there is scope for abuse doesn't stop things being worthwhile though.

Ideally of course, you wouldn't need a law at all, we'd just have a tolerant society that wouldn't say bigotted hateful stuff simply becaus its bigotted and hateful.

But i'm not holding my breath on that.

Quick glance at wiki, shows lots and lots of first world nations with hate speech laws. American with its fixation on its constitution is one of the few with very limited provisions for it.

[Aaron]

I can count on one hand the number of people convicted under our hate speech laws. The only thing stopping America from crafting a decent one is it's own incompetent government. Well and the Supreme Court.

[Losonti Tokash]

so what's the point then if it's going to affect like 4 dudes

[RyanThunder]

It appeals to our sense of cultural superiority.

[Aaron]

Well it does give an avenue to charge someone if they do start spouting it, it's not like having it harms anything, even if its not used. All it cost was time.