The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting

[Ralin]

What do YOU think he looks like?

I always just assumed his avatar was a picture of him.

[phongn]

it would be inspired by publius but with more focus on stuff outside the government of the empire - eg rebel structures, independent terrorist organizations, clone wars revanchists, the criminal underground, etc. a link to the pdf might be nice though.

Turns out I have two documents!

General notes on the Empire
The New Order in Power

[phongn]

How did History subforum become one of the struggling SD.Net's deader subforums then? I wouldn't say he was the main cause but he didn't help, despite his talent, and he shat things up. If the History forum should've been less about whimsical intellectual doodling and more about serious research and information sharing, maybe it should've been run more like a legitimate virtual classroom?

History was dead on delivery. SDN did not really have the the critical mass needed for another forum. Most of those interested in history were interested in the military aspects of it (and we already had a forum for that. It's called HAB).

[thejester]

I think there's a critical mass of people interested in history, just not interested enough to overcome the consensus on the issues that are likely to interest them. If I were to post topics about WW2 for example, I'm sure I could get ten people who'd basically regurgitate Why the Allies Won and When Titans Clashed at me. That's fine, but I've read those books and seen those debates a million times on the internet already. That leaves you in a position of either taking it to the next level - where posters are putting the time and money into getting their hands on primary sources and deeper literature, particularly postgraduate papers and journal articles - or going the SB/ACG route where people routinely go 'oh man what if France had not been stupid in 1940?' and it gives the chance for those with a bit of knowledge to go 'well then x and y and z'.

I can think of a couple of prominent examples in the past couple of years on other forums where individual posters who happened to have read and studied certain areas heavily have challenged the status quo on them, with really gratifying results. But those kind of people are unlikely to appear on SDN for a variety of reasons, and that leaves option 2, which Thanas (not unfairly) opposes.

[phongn]

I think there's a critical mass of people interested in history, just not interested enough to overcome the consensus on the issues that are likely to interest them. If I were to post topics about WW2 for example, I'm sure I could get ten people who'd basically regurgitate Why the Allies Won and When Titans Clashed at me. That's fine, but I've read those books and seen those debates a million times on the internet already.

That's probably a more accurate view than mine.

That leaves you in a position of either taking it to the next level - where posters are putting the time and money into getting their hands on primary sources and deeper literature, particularly postgraduate papers and journal articles - or going the SB/ACG route where people routinely go 'oh man what if France had not been stupid in 1940?' and it gives the chance for those with a bit of knowledge to go 'well then x and y and z'.

At least for military history, Shep was super-interested in primary sources. He's been trawling primary-source archives for some time (and at what must be no small expense) and before he left he was starting to get a kernel of critical thinking in a few fields.

EDIT: That said, on SB I did see various interesting discussions for Option 2 until I finally drifted away. It seemed rather more energetic than SDN, too. Are you still active there at all?

[thejester]

Yeah but Shep's primary sources 90% of the time were technical manuals. I'm sure it's really interesting for engineers but the only thing it does in terms of historical debate is continue the totally unhelpful trend of 'Panther 75 could penetrate 200mm of plated Soviet steel at 2km so THEY WIN'. I admire his dedication, especially after realising the hoops NARA makes you jump through, but a lt of it was too overtly technical.

[phongn]

Yeah but Shep's primary sources 90% of the time were technical manuals. I'm sure it's really interesting for engineers but the only thing it does in terms of historical debate is continue the totally unhelpful trend of 'Panther 75 could penetrate 200mm of plated Soviet steel at 2km so THEY WIN'. I admire his dedication, especially after realising the hoops NARA makes you jump through, but a lt of it was too overtly technical.

He's been moving onto detailed production numbers lately - but yes, it is rather technical, which should be no surprise as this is Shep we're talking about. (It also looks like he's trying to make available various warplans as well - not news for you but maybe for quite a few people).

[Agent Bert Macklin]

I just returned from bowling and I scored a 208 on my last game. This is the second time I've played in at least five yaers.

[Darksi4190]

How long has it been since Shep posted on SDN anyways? The last thing I can remember was the 40 oz. Liquor bottle fiasco in testing. Was that the trigger for him finally leaving?

[Agent Bert Macklin]

How long has it been since Shep posted on SDN anyways? The last thing I can remember was the 40 oz. Liquor bottle fiasco in testing. Was that the trigger for him finally leaving?

No. He deleted a huge fucking art discussion thread that I reconstructed.

[Darksi4190]

Oh yeah I remember. He nuked testing while several decent discussions were going on, and they striped his mod powers. Is that why he left?

[Agent Bert Macklin]

That I eventually reconstructed, rather.

[phongn]

He went on a rampage and left. I have no idea why.

[xon]

He went on a rampage and left. I have no idea why.

I was always amazed he stay for so long given how hostile parts of the forums treated him and the hot/cold relationship with the mods/admins from a public perspective.

[RyanThunder]

I was always amazed he stay for so long given how hostile parts of the forums treated him and the hot/cold relationship with the mods/admins from a public perspective.

Well to be fair, I stayed there pretty long even after they titled me a Village Idiot before I finally couldn't even be fucked to stick around for the STGODs.

[magic princess]

Shep did it as a way of breaking all ties with the community. He was pretty honest about explaining his intentions to me and I don't doubt him.

[Stofsk]

Return of the Jedi features the first revelation that the Jedi weren't perfect, and the ending basically says that the Jedi were wrong about the Force. It's the first element of things that would later crop up in the prequels.

I dunno, I kinda like it because of that. The conversation with Yoda on his deathbed says to me that they were going to tell him the truth when they felt he was ready to handle it, but he impetuously went off to try and save his friends and thus learnt the awful truth. But from a mythic storytelling point of view, I think it's more valuable to show that the teachers were wrong and that the student was right, as the OT is basically Luke's hero's journey thing. Just like how Palpatine was wrong too; that the two senior exemplars of both the Jedi and Sith religions were wrong I think fits with the themes of RotJ being the culmination of Luke's journey.

Where I think it comes unstuck and what a lot of people have a problem with is Obi-wan's 'certain point of view' line. Some people just can't handle the kindly Obi-wan telling Luke porkies about his dad. But I think it's also possible that Obi-wan was lying to himself as well. Or that in his training/education of the force, falling to the dark side meant killing the person you used to be, metaphorically (which is what he actually says in the movie). Either way, it does give a sense of nuance to the character - that he's not just the quintessential White Knight archetype, but if you'll forgive the Arthurian analogy, he'd be Lancelot to Luke's Percival.

[F.J. Prefect, Esq]

I did lol at people's 'G&C is sooo dead' shtick. Y'all want to discuss games. Go start a thread.

Please note that the thread about Halo 4

The latest and biggest entry in one of the biggest gaming franchises in the universe

Started by Stark

Three pages long

Please note the thread about Black Ops 2

The literally best selling game of all time and latest entry in the biggest gaming franchise ever conceived

Started by Stark

Two pages long

Please note that the thread about Metal Gear Rising

The latest entry in one of the biggest gaming franchises in the universe

Started by me

Not even one page and only marginally larger than the thread about EADOR of all things

Please note the thread about The Walking Dead

The most critically acclaimed game of the year

Started by Flagg

Two pages long

The only relatively recent threads in GNC of any scale are the TOR thread (20 pages) and World of Tanks (210 pages and what the fuck)

That subforum is way past terminal. It cannot even constitute a zombie.

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah he got better about recently. He also doesn't post 'lol G&C is so dead' here constantly anymore. So there's that.

Thats why I said 'I did lol'. Past tense.

eta: And I guess your point is 'G&C' really is dead. Which is true. But only so much as posting as gone down across the board.

[Veef]

start a super rotj LP thread

[timmy]

We got bettrer mileage out of the Daisy thread

[Veef]

Daisy... daisy...give me your answer do...

[Gands]

Shep did it as a way of breaking all ties with the community. He was pretty honest about explaining his intentions to me and I don't doubt him.

From about 2008 onwards (specifically the Poe threads), I was under the impression that he was trying to get banned, as opposed to just walking away.

[Veef]

Just take a dive, mang.

Just take a dive and walk away.

[RogueIce]

Oh yeah I remember. He nuked testing while several decent discussions were going on, and they striped his mod powers. Is that why he left?

Actually he's still a mod. They never demoted him.