Lament 3: Cry Hard With A Vengeance

[RyanThunder]

Ryan, remind never to go into a customer oriented business with you...

Hah! Fair enough.

I suppose its easy for me to say when I'm not the one making a living off of it.

[Questor]

RE: Windows 8 and the case of the Terrible UI

BTW, these issues may seem like details and nitpicky, but since UI is all about details, that's a place to start.

For me, Windows 8 is characterized by an attention to detail that appears almost obsessive. Little things that affect a fraction of one percent of users were improved and touched up. Multiple monitor support is a great example of this, to take something that MS does very well and Apple can't seem to even come close to figuring out. All throughout the OS, there's this same sense of "fit and finish". Then you get to everything involved with input and it's like that same concept just fell off a cliff (to be fair, Apple pushed them over, but they were standing there on the edge).

Issue 1: Gesture based login - Great idea, why in god's name is this not managed by AD other than to turn it off? Is the stored gesture so large that it couldn't be attached to an AD record?

Issue 2: Default Gestures - Seriously Microsoft, was the person assigned to these dropped on their head as a child? I understand that Apple patented (and whichever idiot allowed that deserves to be sent to the mines) many of the most intuitive ones, but is that seriously a license to not even try? Use the edges is a great concept, but as implemented, they are not intuitive, and the hinting just doesn't work right. Also, whichever genius decided that there should be no alternate methods for the mouse? They need to go to the mines, too.

Issue 3: The lack of customizability of gestures - Gestures need to be at least as customizable as the mouse buttons were.

Issue 4: Remote monitors/Virtual Machines - GAAAAAA!!!! This is where the edge model breaks down. RD or a VM window for windows 8 makes me absolutely insane.

These issues seem like detail issues, and they really are. Here's the best part, they're all fixable.

Microsoft has what is the makings of the best touch UI available right now, what makes it terrible is that touch - particularly multi-touch - needs to be done very close to exactly right or it falls into this "uncanny valley" where it breaks the interaction metaphor. By getting there early, and through the grace of a broken patent system, apple managed to get effective control of the equivalent of "desktop metaphor" for touch. That doesn't mean there aren't other systems that are just as intuitive, or perhaps even better. I think MS's edge focus is great, it just needs polish.

[RogueIce]

Re: Windows 8 and Shutdown

Change for the sake of change is not always better. And just dismissively going "you're an idiot" and "lol fatty nerds fear change" is not much of a rebuttal at all.

So the question comes down to why did they add extra steps to the shutdown procedure? If you can't come up with an answer for that, maybe you shouldn't be a smug jackass toward people who say they don't like it.

[Flagg]

No, you really are just a bunch of dripping whiny cunts.

[RogueIce]

Luckily nobody expects anything better out of you Flagg, or I'd be annoyed at your lack of effort and pointless aggression.

[Flagg]

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

[Zod]

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with insufferably smug assholes who clearly don't know anything about basic usability design?

[Questor]

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

Then why don't you have a meaningful discussion with me? I've never mentioned the shutdown aspect.

Is it just because you want to spew venom and bile all over everyone else? That's ok, but it would be nice if you changed you av or switched the text color or something so we could know when you're trying to take part in a discussion and when you just want to angrily shake your fist at the world.

[RyanThunder]

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

Then why don't you have a meaningful discussion with me? I've never mentioned the shutdown aspect.

Is it just because you want to spew venom and bile all over everyone else? That's ok, but it would be nice if you changed you av or switched the text color or something so we could know when you're trying to take part in a discussion and when you just want to angrily shake your fist at the world.

I should probably start doing that.

[Stofsk]

Oh. My. God. Adult education with mature age students is the fucking pits.

[Flagg]

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with insufferably smug assholes who clearly don't know anything about basic usability design?

Yet again you prove that you're the stupidest motherfucker on this board. And ADR is here. So that says something.

[weemadando]

Oh. My. God. Adult education with mature age students is the fucking pits.

There is a reason that the mature age student is the most despised of all students by the rest.

Especially *those* ones who feel their accumulated life knowledge in other fields somehow trumps the professor's peer acknowledged expertise.

[Zod]

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with insufferably smug assholes who clearly don't know anything about basic usability design?

Yet again you prove that you're the stupidest motherfucker on this board. And ADR is here. So that says something.

Have you actually read any of the arguments? Or do you just enjoy making RyanThunder look like the grownup here?

[adr]

more steps might be a success b/c it frees up space for something more common. for shutdown a lot of ppl are using the other devices where they use the power button so putting it prominently on screen aint as big a deal. you can disagree on desktop tho, it sure breaks some expectations and habit

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

when I was invited to give a talk at the first international d conference in Menlo park ca in may i was thinking about talking about what i call annoyance friction

these are things that don't objectively take a lot of time to deal with but have a big long term cost because it makes the user feel like he is fighting the process; it is demotivating, sometimes immediately so slowing work, and (my not yet tested hypothesis is that ) it contributes to employee turnover when left untreated long enough

the smallest things like having to prefix $ on variables (especially with a less than perfect 4 key) doesn't take long to do but is annoying and can contribute to a php person deciding to just quit


so reducing these seemingly insignificant frictions can actually save your business a lot of money in the long term, even if all other things are equal. and i tell you what, with D, all other things aren't just equal. much of it is better


but i ended up turning down the invitation anyway so i haven't finished developing the concept. when i finally get my blog maybe i'll do it there

regardless the extra milliseconds to shut down could be a symptom of new frictions in windows 8 and as such could be far more significant than it appears

[Aaron]

UPS actually called me this morning. They were kind enough to suggest I request packages require a signature, so they won't just leave them. And she's going to talk to the driver and say "hey, leave it out of sight next time"

[xon]

Look, if the moderators of this board think it's inappropriate, delete the post.

lol

If it helps, this board is currently physically in Australia.

Just no stock trading, or having boards for that explicit purpose. I don't want to touch the legal reporting requirements that ASIC requires for places like that, which I caught the tail end of at work. Unsolicited pseudo-medical advice that lingers like a bad smell? Much less stringant standards that I know about.

[xon]

Issue 4: Remote monitors/Virtual Machines - GAAAAAA!!!! This is where the edge model breaks down. RD or a VM window for windows 8 makes me absolutely insane.

The first time I tried Windows Server 2012 I rage quit and deleted the VM when trying to deal with the 1x1 pixel required to hit to bring up the start screen or bring up the charms menu.

[RyanThunder]

Again, I don't mean to sound snide, but you could just use the windows key, couldn't you?

Charms is a different matter, though. I can see why it'd be bothersome in general for that case. It really isn't optimized for commercial work in that respect.

[evilsoup]

windows key might not be an option in a VM? IDK...

[Zod]

It's not a matter of whether you could do it another way. It's a matter of "what the hell were they thinking?" Any design changes that affect usability should have a good reason, otherwise whats the point? What value does it add?

[RyanThunder]

Well, like I said, I can see how it'd be problematic otherwise from a dev perspective, so I'm not sure that we currently disagree.

It seems like Win8 is aimed primarily at casual tablet users.

[Zod]

By value I mean the value for users. Without a good reason for it you increase design hours on the dev end and you wind up confusing your customers for. . . what? How does the change benefit customers?

[Flagg]

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with people whining about how it takes an extra millisecond to shut down their computer?

Why should I engage in meaningful discussion with insufferably smug assholes who clearly don't know anything about basic usability design?

Yet again you prove that you're the stupidest motherfucker on this board. And ADR is here. So that says something.

Have you actually read any of the arguments? Or do you just enjoy making RyanThunder look like the grownup here?

Dude you're whining about how it's slightly inconvenient for you (a known retard) to shut down a computer and you have the balls to call me childish? Hey, I heard that if you mix ammonia and bleach you can get really high. Try it.

[Zod]

You're being irate that people have the temerity to point out a flaw with Windows design. There's tons of examples, the power button is just one of them. Frankly you sound like a raving fanboy.

[Flagg]

You're being irate that people have the temerity to point out a flaw with Windows design. There's tons of examples, the power button is just one of them. Frankly you sound like a raving fanboy.

No, raving fanboys are people who nitpick about shit that doesn't matter. Like you, fucktard.