The Testing Chat III: The Time of Great Chatting

[Crazedwraith]

the what?

[Oxymoron]

Huh...

Batman : The Animated Series ?

[Crazedwraith]

I got the acronym but not what you meant by integral.

[Oxymoron]

Oh.

Oh, well, you see, like... The integrality of it ? All the episodes ?

Huh. Seems this does not translate well in english...

[Crazedwraith]

oh right. you were going to pirate the complete series. i thought like there was some special. or re-editing of it with that title or something.

[Aaron]

there is very little to tell

just someone (presumably at RMC) keeps firing artillery pieces intermittently and its rattling the windows and scaring the fuck out of me and my officemate

Probably training in the Gore area. Unless its a blank ceremonial cannon at the college or Fort Henry, the training area in ktown isn't big enough for arty. Its barely big enough to get lost in.

Unless you happen to be Signalman Kendall

[Oxymoron]

oh right. you were going to pirate the complete series. i thought like there was some special. or re-editing of it with that title or something.

Well, if I found somehow an used complete set of DVDs for the thing for less than €40 port included, why not ; but otherwise I don't feel like paying more for my cartoons and would turn toward pirating the thing.

I mean, I have already a number of movie DVDs I actually payed for full price which I still haven't watched, so a complete series... Let's keep it real. I have some disposable income, but it doesn't mean I have to waste it.

[Straha]

Over the past year I've been reading a lot of the literature on Ableism and trying to cut out a lot of the shit I used to do. It isn't just offensive, it helps to damage any ability to relate to people who are non-neuronormative and makes attempts to work with them almost... shameful.

I don't understand the last bit. Could you elaborate?

using mental disorders as insults makes it harder to relate to the conditions as real things and people with them as real people, and makes it difficult to work with people with such conditions, in addition to provoking feelings of guilt when you're talking with someone on antipsychotics and you called someone schizo an hour ago.

This, more or less. If it is shameful for someone to be 'I'M A JUGGALO WOOP WOOP' why should I associate with them? If it's bad to be schizophrenic, traumatically depressed, addicted, etc. then those people are inherently bad too and should probably be avoided, moreover and it pre-judges any attempts to understand their location. Even if I accept that it's good to work with people with, to use Jasbir Puar's term, debilities using those debilities as insults means that instead of approaching difficulties as questions of inter-personal relationships it becomes almost an expiation of a black mark, and that I don't like.


P.S. Baks, did you get my e-mail?

I like 'Fritata' my self.

Straha, you omelette!

I see someone has a soft-boiled yolk.

[Straha]

I hate dealing with Rogue 9. He's a fucking joke who wants to be taken seriously. Almost any other shit-poster I can deal with at length (see: Carinthium) but he's just such a fucking fritata that it is mind-numbing.

[thejester]

there is very little to tell

just someone (presumably at RMC) keeps firing artillery pieces intermittently and its rattling the windows and scaring the fuck out of me and my officemate

Probably training in the Gore area. Unless its a blank ceremonial cannon at the college or Fort Henry, the training area in ktown isn't big enough for arty. Its barely big enough to get lost in.

Unless you happen to be Signalman Kendall

The Royal Military College Duntroon, mate

[Losonti Tokash]

I hate dealing with Rogue 9. He's a fucking joke who wants to be taken seriously. Almost any other shit-poster I can deal with at length (see: Carinthium) but he's just such a fucking fritata that it is mind-numbing.

Does it make it easier to think of not trying to convince him so much as convincing an audience?

At any rate, like I've said in the past, I both enjoy your posts and appreciate the fact that there is a quality poster that is concerned about native issues. So thanks.

[Straha]

I hate dealing with Rogue 9. He's a fucking joke who wants to be taken seriously. Almost any other shit-poster I can deal with at length (see: Carinthium) but he's just such a fucking fritata that it is mind-numbing.

Does it make it easier to think of not trying to convince him so much as convincing an audience?

That's why I engage with him at all instead of just sending strings of expletives or reminders of how he chickened out from the Colosseum.

At any rate, like I've said in the past, I both enjoy your posts and appreciate the fact that there is a quality poster that is concerned about native issues. So thanks.

Aw, shucks. I'm touched.

[Bakustra]

Over the past year I've been reading a lot of the literature on Ableism and trying to cut out a lot of the shit I used to do. It isn't just offensive, it helps to damage any ability to relate to people who are non-neuronormative and makes attempts to work with them almost... shameful.

I don't understand the last bit. Could you elaborate?

using mental disorders as insults makes it harder to relate to the conditions as real things and people with them as real people, and makes it difficult to work with people with such conditions, in addition to provoking feelings of guilt when you're talking with someone on antipsychotics and you called someone schizo an hour ago.

This, more or less. If it is shameful for someone to be 'I'M A JUGGALO WOOP WOOP' why should I associate with them? If it's bad to be schizophrenic, traumatically depressed, addicted, etc. then those people are inherently bad too and should probably be avoided, moreover and it pre-judges any attempts to understand their location. Even if I accept that it's good to work with people with, to use Jasbir Puar's term, debilities using those debilities as insults means that instead of approaching difficulties as questions of inter-personal relationships it becomes almost an expiation of a black mark, and that I don't like.


P.S. Baks, did you get my e-mail?

I did, and I doubt I'll be able to attend in person, but I may be able to send something in!

I hate dealing with Rogue 9. He's a fucking joke who wants to be taken seriously. Almost any other shit-poster I can deal with at length (see: Carinthium) but he's just such a fucking fritata that it is mind-numbing.

He's too unenlightened to conceive of justice as existing beyond "punish the guilty". He's fucking Javert in the flesh.

I hate dealing with Rogue 9. He's a fucking joke who wants to be taken seriously. Almost any other shit-poster I can deal with at length (see: Carinthium) but he's just such a fucking fritata that it is mind-numbing.

Does it make it easier to think of not trying to convince him so much as convincing an audience?

At any rate, like I've said in the past, I both enjoy your posts and appreciate the fact that there is a quality poster that is concerned about native issues. So thanks.

Something that just struck me literally today is that the reservation system has really done a double-whammy on Native Americans in the US- apart from the complete economic collapse associated with it, it's also served to render natives invisible in multiple ways- they don't exist anymore, they're all kept on the reservations- and then we get in the negative stereotypes that sprout up whenever an ethnicity is economically disadvantaged, and then we remember that every single alternative (I mean, since Standing Bear v. Crook has been enforced) has been grotesquely worse.

[adr]

this thread is useless without links

[Straha]

A thread.

[Straha]

I did, and I doubt I'll be able to attend in person, but I may be able to send something in!

If you do you should e-mail them sooner rather than later. I think the deadline is tomorrow, which is why they want to get everything in order.

He's too unenlightened to conceive of justice as existing beyond "punish the guilty". He's fucking Javert in the flesh.

I'd agree with you but it'd spot you the idea that Rogue knows what it means to be guilty, and I'm not sure he's got a firm grasp on that.

Something that just struck me literally today is that the reservation system has really done a double-whammy on Native Americans in the US- apart from the complete economic collapse associated with it, it's also served to render natives invisible in multiple ways- they don't exist anymore, they're all kept on the reservations- and then we get in the negative stereotypes that sprout up whenever an ethnicity is economically disadvantaged, and then we remember that every single alternative (I mean, since Standing Bear v. Crook has been enforced) has been grotesquely worse.

The reservation system is probably easily the single worst government institution inside the United States that presently operates. There can be no defense of it, no justification, and it serves as a day-to-day reminder of the colonial and genocidal legacy that the country fucking surrounds itself with in a way that's just... utterly depressing.

[Losonti Tokash]

one of the things about it that drives me absolutely nuts is that even the most concepts of reservations don't mean shit, as shown by the keystone xl pipeline

we can say "no we don't want this thing running through our land" and transcanada just shrugs and says they're not obligated to work with native groups and can just get permission from the feds to do it anyway

at least the amended version of VAWA passed so maybe rape tourism will decrease

[RogueIce]

edit: they actually did have kevin conroy and the btas lot do some dkr lines when the created a btas version of the dkr trailer to promote some btas marathon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btMtwz4P0fc

his vocal performance is sort of uninspired but then the lines weren't that great to begin with.

It was pretty awesome how they got all the BTAS VAs to do their character's lines, instead of just Conroy and leaving the rest as-is.

Well probably except the cop dude, who was only in one episode as a side character anyway. But that's pretty minor.

[Straha]

If you want to look at regulations that are particularly disgusting check out the renewable energy grants on Native Lands inside the States. Tribes need to jump through hoops at the BIA that no other group ever has to jump through to prove to the Federal Government that the Tribes can use and know how to handle the electricity that they'll get from it. Moreover there are a number of distinct restrictions that keep Native households from getting grants for solar panels and wind turbines without government approval for unknowable reasons. It's downright fucking disturbing, and helps keep electricity prices on Native Lands at outrageously high prices, even though they're often dumping grounds for the waste products of power plants.

[Losonti Tokash]

This is basically why I quit that thread as soon as Rogue started in with "they're all dead, so who cares." I get so angry about it I can't discuss it rationally and I'd just yell and make myself look nuts.

Edit: I just don't understand why it's always presented in the context of "punishing" anybody. I don't particularly think that tribal sovereignty and self-determination are particularly outlandish concepts to desire, but apparently those can only exist in a world where Indians rampage across the plains killing all the white folk.

[Bakustra]

If you want to look at regulations that are particularly disgusting check out the renewable energy grants on Native Lands inside the States. Tribes need to jump through hoops at the BIA that no other group ever has to jump through to prove to the Federal Government that the Tribes can use and know how to handle the electricity that they'll get from it. Moreover there are a number of distinct restrictions that keep Native households from getting grants for solar panels and wind turbines without government approval for unknowable reasons. It's downright fucking disturbing, and helps keep electricity prices on Native Lands at outrageously high prices, even though they're often dumping grounds for the waste products of power plants.

look at this shit:

http://www.bia.gov/cs/groups/public/doc ... 037328.pdf

look at it

there are still backdoors built into the system so that the bia can still sell off reservations if need be

fucking hell

[timmy]

rape tourism

Sorry what

[Bakustra]

rape tourism

Sorry what

Okay, see, reservations are technically sovereign nations (without any of the sovereignty) within the USA, so tribal laws apply within the reservation itself. State law doesn't. Except that federal law overrides for "major crimes". So what that means in practice and common law is that tribal courts can prosecute tribes committed by one native resident against another easily (except for burglary, murder, manslaughter, rape, arson, larceny, and assault with intent to kill), while crimes committed by non-residents against native residents are very difficult to prosecute and may not fall under any jurisdiction- the reservation prosecutor and police have all the evidence, while the federal courts have jurisdiction, meaning that if you commit crimes on a reservation, it's difficult to successfully prosecute you unless you live there and are native. Because federal courts are so backed up that they usually can't prosecute every case they have evidence for! So jackoffs have seized upon this as a way to rape people and avoid even the hint of criminal prosecution, before we get into the problem that a lot of people who live near reservation areas are horrifically racist! And, of course, the jurisdiction doesn't actually apply to the reservation, just to natives. Non-natives committing crimes against other non-natives are under state jurisdiction. As we can see, the United States of America is a magical country.

[Losonti Tokash]

Don't forget that tribal courts also have ridiculous sentencing restrictions, something like a limit of up to 3 years in prison for basically anything.

And that's just the modern incarnation, it's something that's existed for centuries. For a long time even if it was technically illegal, Indians weren't allowed to testify in court or accuse white men of criminal acts, so it was basically impossible for them to be punished at all.

Anyway, the reason I said the new version of the Violence Against Women Act might help is because it's supposed to correct these problems and also give tribal courts the ability to prosecute non-Indians for crimes they commit on tribal lands. Republicans were, of course, heavily opposed to the new version of the bill partly because they think tribal courts can't be trusted to provide a fair trial to a white man.

[Bakustra]

Don't forget that tribal courts also have ridiculous sentencing restrictions, something like a limit of up to 3 years in prison for basically anything.

And that's just the modern incarnation, it's something that's existed for centuries. For a long time even if it was technically illegal, Indians weren't allowed to testify in court or accuse white men of criminal acts, so it was basically impossible for them to be punished at all.

Anyway, the reason I said the new version of the Violence Against Women Act might help is because it's supposed to correct these problems and also give tribal courts the ability to prosecute non-Indians for crimes they commit on tribal lands. Republicans were, of course, heavily opposed to the new version of the bill partly because they think tribal courts can't be trusted to provide a fair trial to a white man.

Yeah, hopefully it manages to do something. And, technically, it was just a matter of whiteness, which is why at least two people sued to be declared white in the course of the nineteenth century.