Testing Chat IV: A New Hope

[magic princess]

Look, okay, Aaron, I'm just fucking terrified of police checkpoints. I won't even drive in MA, CT after 8 PM on friday and saturday nights lest I come across one. Have to plan my trips to get back to RI where they're illegal before then, or to a hotel. I just, there is nothing more terrifying than the feeling of total helplessness of being completely surrounded by armed police who have total power over you when you're from my background. And I think it's wrong that a society can let that happen. You'd fucking think twice if you had American cops in Canada or Aussieland too. My favourite story is of the group of American cops who beat the shit out of a woman like me and then arrested her for prostitution despite the recordings showing them walking up and just starting to taunt and beat her. Guess the time and date?

0850 in the morning, while she was standing in front of a Social Security Administration office to apply for disability, in broad daylight on a monday morning..

[Aaron]

I apologize Marina, that was pretty fucking thoughtless of me.

And I agree, that is fucked up. No one should have to endure that.

[Bounty]

I' not in China anymore WHOOP WHOOP

man i missed good butter

[magic princess]

Thank you. I understand why people in other countries are fine with DUI checkpoints, but, look, okay, this is America. And I'll support checkpoints and gun control when every single cop in America has been fired and replaced with cops trained in your academies, working under your laws and your rules of conduct. Until that day happens, I want my guns as a check on government tyranny and every single legal restriction on their level of power I can get anywhere, no matter how trivial, because it's a war of rights between the police and the citizens here, and the only differences between American police and Russian militsa is that if you've got enough money in Russia you can buy yourself out of the charges and they at least let you film them with a dash cam. In American, that would be a tasering, beating, and arrest. But in Putin's Russia everyone has a dashcam in their car.

Yeah.

Think about that.

That's how bad American law enforcement has become. Russian cops are subject to more checks on their behaviour. You can get a Russian court to side with you thanks to dashcam footage. In America, that's an extra felony on your rap sheet.

[Gands]

I' not in China anymore WHOOP WHOOP

man i missed good butter

Are you back in Bountyland, or a third location?

[Gands]

I find it interesting that American exceptionalism seems to boil down to "we suck as a people, so we can't have nice things."

[zhaktronz]

Shockingly enough we can use dash cameras to record the police in Australia too


http://youtube.com/watch?v=LMRgbqveaj4

(that speed camera site was in violation of queensland police regulations for speed trap setup BTW)

Why would US police even know they are being filmed by a dash camera BTW? They aren't exactly conspicuous units


Thats my unit



And the only reason DUI checkpoints don't work in America is because they are crippled by design; many states if a DUI checkpoint is setup you can just turn around and fail to submit to the test and the police have no right to force a test.

PS this may be why they are useless in america.

[timmy]

Why would US police even know they are being filmed by a dash camera BTW? They aren't exactly conspicuous units

I'm betting they know what to look for.

And I agree with the notion that Australian police can be arseholes, but breathos get a thumbs up from me. Never had anything but courtesy and professionalism at one.

[zhaktronz]

Why would US police even know they are being filmed by a dash camera BTW? They aren't exactly conspicuous units

I'm betting they know what to look for.

And I agree with the notion that Australian police can be arseholes, but breathos get a thumbs up from me. Never had anything but courtesy and professionalism at one.

Stealth install behind the front grill?

Ill second the never having a negative experience from a RBT.


Maria I think maybe you have a hard time recognizing that cops are just normal people doing a job like everyone else. Especially when they've got an RBT checkpoint setup where literally all they care about is having you blow into the breathalyzer for 30seconds.

[Straha]

How in the hell do you make a Reuben without corned beef?

Delicious.

[Questor]

Oh, for the love of God! I leave you people alone for a couple of hours, and look what you start!

This is why we can't have nice things!

[timmy]

^this

[weemadando]

Oh, for the love of God! I leave you people alone for a couple of hours, and look what you start!

This is why we can't have nice things!

I know. A fucking tempeh Reuben?

Seriously vegetarians, get your shit together. I don't care if you make a tempeh sandwich, but don't call it a fucking Reuben.

[Straha]

It looks like a Reuben. It feels like a Reuben. It tastes like a Reuben. It's a Reuben.

[Stofsk]

But on a more serious note, how is encouraging veganism political change? I can see the philosophical part, but political? Unless they're advocating laws banning all meat and dairy consumption but I'm not aware of any serious movement to actually do that. Maybe against factory farms or something but an actual meat/dairy prohibition?

The meat industry isn't apolitical. Especially wrt trade between nations where serious cash is at stake. This has even been in the news in Australia recently and several years ago (live animal exports being particularly controversial here, where the animals are slaughtered rather inhumanely at their destination in comparison to how they would be slaughtered here). As such agitating towards change by way of increasing and promoting veganism would result in some industries being forced to change, if successful.

I guess. Don't really see it except in some vague abstract way though. I don't see why fewer people eating meat would in any way encourage more humane slaughter of animals for food, unless you convert enough people they just go out of business. Are the inhumane ways cheaper? If so one would think lesser profits (from fewer people eating meat) would only encourage those methods to cut costs.

But then I'm operating on the belief that "going vegan" is just a dietary thing, rather than automatically engaging in the political sphere and that all vegans must therefore be animal rights activists.

Of course the inhumane ways are cheaper. They're also in a lot of cases religiously motivated, or just a result of the end destination lacking any kind of infrastructure to deal with the humane treatment livestock. This is why live animal exports from Australia to several muslim countries has become controversial here. But it's also a question of culture, or getting the culture changed - meaning the culture we have here or in the west. I doubt promoting veganism is going to have the kind of widespread shift in people's attitudes that many vegans hope, but it's better than doing nothing. And it doesn't have to be veganism either, raising awareness of what is done to animals leads to more pressure to regulate the industry. An example of this is cage-free eggs. When I was a kid this wasn't even an issue, at least I never saw it being such. Over the last decade though I've observed how things like 'cage-free' eggs have become a thing. Whether they're actually laid by chickens that aren't in cages is, well, another thing altogether, but it's a sign that producers recognise a segment of their market values ethical practices, and will pay a premium for that. So in some cases what costs more may actually result in profit for the producers.

As for whether veganism is a dietary thing or ideological, I don't know that it matters. It can be both, one or the other, or some people could simply like the taste of vegan dishes vs meat dishes. Whether you or anyone else find them annoying is also not really the issue either. Frankly I find the people who get annoyed and do counter-protest nonsense like buying KFC or whatever far more odious.

[weemadando]

It looks like a Reuben. It feels like a Reuben. It tastes like a Reuben. It's a Reuben.

Does it have Corned Beef in it? No?

NOT A REUBEN.

Like I said, call it what you want, but don't call it what it isn't.

[RogueIce]

Actually when I was thinking about the inhumane slaughter, I was thinking about stuff like the factory farms I hear people make noise about from time to time, and whether that sort of thing is cheaper than the alternative.

I don't really find vegans annoying as some kind of general principle. Sure if they're gonna harp on me about STOP EATING MEAT YOU BAD PERSON I'll be annoyed, but I could say that about anyone who acts like that on any issue. Personally I doubt I'll ever be converted to the whole "eating meat is immoral" thing, but that's just the way it goes. You want to eat nothing but veggies, it just means more burgers for me.

[Darksi4190]

Well shit that isn't good. My phone doesn't seem to be working.

It powers up just fine but I can't seem to get the touchscreen to work. Every time I try to use it the screen doesn't respond to any input. Looks like i'm gonna have to take it in to the verizon store for repairs.

[adr]

Factory farms are the most ethical way to produce animal products because it reduces the animals to an industrial chemical process. By not allowing them to develop hopes and dreams as individuals roaming wild and free, they remain nothing more than a biochemical sac, and therefore, are not part of the ethical in-group.

[Oxymoron]

ADR : that's an interesting way to see it, however if you really wanted to be completely ethical in that way, you would need to de-brain them in such a way that they would have absolutely no awareness of their own existence, and be incapable of feeling pain.

[Aaron]

Maybe we should start growing it in a vat, ala 40k.

I have to laugh at adr's "wild and free" though, prey animals don't have a fun packed existence. Still, its better then a cage.

Edit: god damn, do I sound...i dunno...brief? When I type?

[Oxymoron]

I'm of the opinion that if we need animal protein, we would be best served, from an ethical and practical standpoint, by feeding vat-grown phytoplankton (which need only sunlight and minerals that could be found in our waste waters) to vats of zooplankton, which we would then reprocess in true sci-fi fashion in vat-grown steaks and such.

Or alternatively, we start eating insects.

[Darksi4190]

Aren't they already experimenting with artificially grown meat? Aside from the whole animal rights issue, it's gotta have less impact on the environment than factory farming.

[Oxymoron]

Depend on the quantity of energy you have to expend to turn the whole thing into an industrial process.

[magic princess]

The point is that in many states the mere act of recording police without their permission being granted before the camera begins to role is automatically a felony, which you cannot fight back against, as it is a felony regardless of intent; i.e., the mere act is felonious, no matter the purpose.