Testing Chat IV: A New Hope

[adr]

so i just hit subscribe on a youtube thing

but was logged into my work google account to edit one of their spreadsheets


god damn this one account for everything crap

[evilsoup]

so what are we going to call the next thread

[RyanThunder]

Testing Chat V: For Vendetta?

[Oxymoron]

Considering the roots of this chat thread, this seems appropriate.

[evilsoup]

I could get behind Testing Chat V: For Vendetta

[Infinity Biscuit]

Look, nobody assigned the kid (what is presumably) a penis.

I could understand if there was some ambiguity in that respect, but it as far as I know there wasn't.

They all have penises (presumably), yes. Having a penis doesn't make anyone a boy. It means it's more likely, yes, but even in general care should be taken to divorce the assumption from it due to how prevalent and hurtful it is. And again, that's ignoring the fact that this is a camp for children who are already more comfortable outside their assigned gender roles, making this sort of thing even more important.

IB's remark here was that it was a bit... awkward in the context of the article to talk about these kids gender as masculine when they seem to be more at ease with a feminine gender (social perception).

Well presumably at least some of them are likely boys who just want to break out of our society's masculine gender role, some are probably non-binary gender, and some are likely girls. At this age they might not know for sure yet but as always, ask the person in question to know their gender best, and I get the feeling they just saw "people society calls boys, so let's refer to them as boys".

if you want to educate people,

starting by insulting them may not be the best starting point, you know ?

That kind of attitude doesn't deserve even a hint of being acceptable.

[evilsoup]

it's probably counter-productive to go straight for insults though

[RyanThunder]

Look, nobody assigned the kid (what is presumably) a penis.

I could understand if there was some ambiguity in that respect, but it as far as I know there wasn't.

They all have penises (presumably), yes. Having a penis doesn't make anyone a boy. It means it's more likely, yes, but even in general care should be taken to divorce the assumption from it due to how prevalent and hurtful it is. And again, that's ignoring the fact that this is a camp for children who are already more comfortable outside their assigned gender roles, making this sort of thing even more important.

I didn't drive my car to work today, I manipulated the pedals and steering wheel on my internal combustion engine-powered automobile on the national highway system to travel to my place of employment.

[evilsoup]

oh dear

[Infinity Biscuit]

See this is why.

He's just another cissexist asshole.

Why do people thing Ryan deserves decency at this point I mean really

[adr]

gender is a trope

[RogueIce]

Testing Chat V: A Certain Clique Strikes Back

[Darksi4190]

If we're going with a SW name theme, I propose we retroactively re-title the previous chat thread "Episode III: Revenge of the Bitch."

[adr]

sw names are trite anyway

i wish this one got "searching for veins" or whatever it was cuz that was so loly and way moar original.

[RyanThunder]

See this is why.

He's just another cissexist asshole.

Why do people thing Ryan deserves decency at this point I mean really

tl;dr there's no harmful assumption being made and you're just looking for reasons to be offended.

Now it makes sense to say "assigned male" in the context of that article where you're talking about people who do not identify as boys in the traditional sense, I guess?

Basically I refuse to call people funny names they don't even know the meaning of solely to placate somebody else's sense of how things should be done.

EDIT: Now if somebody asks me to call them something else I'm a little more amenable to that.

[Infinity Biscuit]

tl;dr there's no harmful assumption being made

See this is why.

He's just another cissexist asshole.

Why do people thing Ryan deserves decency at this point I mean really

[RyanThunder]

aaaaand this is why it's impossible for me to give even a single solitary shit about what you think. You merely state that there are harmful assumptions being made and give no explanation as to why or even how they're harmful.

[evilsoup]

ffs ryan
IB didn't come across as offended to me, it was more like 'in this otherwise right-on article, it would have been nice if they'd used the right lingo'
(which it would)
why are you picking a fight over this?

[RogueIce]

sw names are trite anyway

i wish this one got "searching for veins" or whatever it was cuz that was so loly and way moar original.

Yes it was, mainly because I'm the one who came up with it.

But Phant is a poopy head who went with the lame SW reference so.

[evilsoup]

I still think Testing Chat V: For Vendetta is a good one

[RyanThunder]

ffs ryan
IB didn't come across as offended to me, it was more like 'in this otherwise right-on article, it would have been nice if they'd used the right lingo'
(which it would)
why are you picking a fight over this?

Well maybe I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt he deserves and he actually does think that 'boy' has some inherently harmful assumptions associated with it.

If we aren't going to abandon 'retard', why are we abandoning 'boy' or 'girl' in favour of a whole slew of new ways to offend people unintentionally?

I mean I'd be happy to use gender neutral pronouns if I didn't feel like it was dehumanizing.

[Infinity Biscuit]

aaaaand this is why it's impossible for me to give even a single solitary shit about what you think. You merely state that there are harmful assumptions being made and give no explanation as to why or even how they're harmful.

When people tell you you're being offensive, oppressive, hurtful, or anything like that, do you ever actually try to figure out on your own why it's the case or do you sit there refusing to stop and whining about it until the other person does the extra step of explaining everything out to you step by step?

This question is largely rhetorical since the answer's obvious but still

[RyanThunder]

To people I talk to face-to-face, you mean? Well no, I ask them what I've done that's hurt them and then I apologize and try not to do it around them again.

But this is the internet, so I can get away with pressing for an explanation where I wouldn't ordinarily.

[Oxymoron]

Well maybe I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt he deserves and he ...

Don't quote me on this, but I think IB is a girl...

[RyanThunder]

I keep forgetting that and I am dreadfully sorry.