Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

The troll forum, with 50% more bowel movements.
Locked
Message
Author
User avatar
RogueIce
#YOLO
Posts: 2089
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:57 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1651 Post by RogueIce »

F.J. Prefect, Esq wrote:I actually can't remember where I was going with this (something about spherical cows maybe), but I'll finish with blaming the Australian Tourism Commission for fueling all the incredibly daft international imagery of Australia which we cannot reverse because our media industry is too tiny.
G'day mate, let's grill some shrimp on the barbie. :australia:
Infinity Biscuit wrote:How did YOU get from "no makeup" to "not showering" :L
Well granted I don't have much hair because I buzz it short so I may be off, but I'm guessing "greasy bangs" = "did not wash hair" maybe? Which I suppose you could expand into a more general comment about hygiene although personally I think that'd be a little reaching.

Infinity Biscuit
Battering Ram of Love
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1652 Post by Infinity Biscuit »

I took it as "didn't spend time styling it and using product" because the context is cosmetic maintenance so...
Image

User avatar
RogueIce
#YOLO
Posts: 2089
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:57 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1653 Post by RogueIce »

Infinity Biscuit wrote:I took it as "didn't spend time styling it and using product" because the context is cosmetic maintenance so...
I guess it's a perspective thing. When I see "greasy hair" I think they didn't wash it for x days because that's what, to my non-expert about hair stuff mind, causes greasy hair.

For ladies who actually have to deal with it (and the fellows who wear their hair long by choice) they probably know a helluva lot more about it than a guy who simply says to the barber, "Three on top, one on the sides and back. Let's buzz this shit." Note I may not actually include that last sentence in real life.

Galvanized
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1654 Post by Galvanized »

For what it's worth I also went to not showering in my head when I read that. You wash to get rid of the grease and grim, so if you're greasy it means you haven't washed.

User avatar
Bakustra
Religious Fifth Columnist Who Hates Science, Especially Evolution
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:32 pm
Location: Wherever I go, there are nothing but punks like you.

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1655 Post by Bakustra »

Yo IB (and I guess I really should get a tumblr too lol), re: the P3/4 comparison post: Persona 2's halves have easily the best cast of the series, and they're also probably the most progressive (right down to having a canonically queer protagonist) and I find the plot/theme works better than for 3/4 (in the sense that 3's plot is fairly flimsy compared to the thematics and 4's theme is fairly flimsy compared to the plot). More diverse anime stereotypes too. Unfortunately only the first half is available for a modern system, but you know, ATLUS.

Infinity Biscuit
Battering Ram of Love
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1656 Post by Infinity Biscuit »

I thought both halves came out for PSP? I think my roommate has both and I've been meaning to get around to them but I keep forgetting to :L
Image

User avatar
Bakustra
Religious Fifth Columnist Who Hates Science, Especially Evolution
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:32 pm
Location: Wherever I go, there are nothing but punks like you.

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1657 Post by Bakustra »

Infinity Biscuit wrote:I thought both halves came out for PSP? I think my roommate has both and I've been meaning to get around to them but I keep forgetting to :L
EP Portable hasn't been translated yet but it's available as a PSOne classic with the original translation, which isn't half bad. Anyways, IS has probably the best party dynamics overall, and certainly Michel's faces are unmatched anywhere else:

Image

User avatar
RogueIce
#YOLO
Posts: 2089
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:57 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1658 Post by RogueIce »

Why is he wearing a Power Rangers mask?

User avatar
F.J. Prefect, Esq
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1659 Post by F.J. Prefect, Esq »

Why aren't you?

User avatar
RogueIce
#YOLO
Posts: 2089
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:57 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1660 Post by RogueIce »

What makes you think I'm not? :colbert:

Infinity Biscuit
Battering Ram of Love
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1661 Post by Infinity Biscuit »

Excuse me that is clearly a Featherman mask
Image

User avatar
F.J. Prefect, Esq
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:40 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1662 Post by F.J. Prefect, Esq »

Why am I the fat one!?

User avatar
RogueIce
#YOLO
Posts: 2089
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:57 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1663 Post by RogueIce »

So I saw this story when I logged out of my Yahoo! Mail account tonight. I'd have to say I cannot disagree. Just looking at a full list and...yeah. For the most part they're adding skirts where none were before because, y'know, girls.

Like the only one I can sort of understand modifying is the "Robin Tween Costume" adding a skirt, because it's clearly based on Dick Grayson Robin's costume (Tim Drake's Robin has full sleeves) and I can see how they'd be wary of marketing a costume that consists of a tunic and bikini bottom to tweens. That said, they should do what BTAS did and substitute in tights or leggings, not just add a skirt. :picard:

Also I notice they only have the Pink Megaforce Ranger, not the Yellow Megaforce Ranger, as an option. Despite both being female in PR and Sentai (thus Yellow has a skirt on her costume as well).

User avatar
Jung
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:53 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1664 Post by Jung »

Infinity Biscuit wrote:Jung just get a tumblr account already so you can message me in there too :L
I've been considering getting a tumblr so I can post my sci fi things and random inane thoughts.

I thought that thing on pornography you posted was rather interesting, particularly the recurring theme in pornographer comments that they think of themselves as catering to men's desire to get back at women they can't have. It kind of fits with my own thoughts that a lot of toxic reactionism is driven by privilidged people who don't feel privilidged - people who, far from feeling privilidged, see themselves as victims of an unjust system and disadvantaged people as colluders or beneficiaries in the injustice of that system.

It pops into my mind that traditionally a major way class oppression has manifested (with a major intersectionality with oppression of women) is sexual disenfranchisement of poor men. Our society doesn't have the major factors that created this situation (polygyny but not polyandry, risky childbirth, and widespread infanticide of girls), but it's kind of interesting to wonder about the reasons men may feel this kind of resentment.

A big one that occurs to me is unrealistic beauty standards in media. We talk a lot about what this does to girls, but what does it do to boys? It seems logical to think it might create sexual frustration - sexually hyperstimulating them with representations of attractive and sexualized women who are unavailable to them.

Edit: I also wonder how common such an audience reaction actually is. I don't think I've ever felt it.

User avatar
Bakustra
Religious Fifth Columnist Who Hates Science, Especially Evolution
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:32 pm
Location: Wherever I go, there are nothing but punks like you.

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1665 Post by Bakustra »

1. Don’t tone police. It is NOT your right to dictate how someone should react to their oppression.
2. Don’t demand a detailed explanation. You’re basically asking the person to justify their call out. It’s exhausting, many resources are available, and often this is just a way to try and derail, start an argument, or discredit the other person.
3. Don’t get defensive. A call out is not all about you as a person.
4. Don’t take it personally. Calling out is not a personal attack. If someone calls you out, they’re trying to teach you something. Calling out is a way for people to educate others on how systems of oppression operate on a day to day, individual level.
5. Don’t attack the person who’s calling you out. That’s just fucked up.
6. Don’t assume the person calling you out is just “looking to get offended”. Nobody enjoys calling other people out. To call someone out, people often have to mentally prepare for serious repercussions. Calling someone out might mean starting an argument, during which many people will side with the oppressor by default (especially if you’re privileged over the person calling you out).
7. Understand that being oppressive is not the same as being offensive or hurting feelings. The damage you’re perpetuating is part of a larger system of oppression.
8. Realize that your intent is irrelevant when it comes to whether you were oppressive or not.
9. Recognize the power dynamics that are in place between you and the person calling you out.
10. Understand intersectionality. IE: Just because you are oppressed by classism, doesn’t mean you lack male privilege.
11. Know that being privileged means being oppressive, but you can work to reduce the ways that you are oppressive.
12. LISTEN.
13. Genuinely apologize.
14. Work on oppression reduction and being the best ally you can be. The point of calling you out is to draw your attention to how you’re being oppressive, so that you can work to change it. If you made an oppressive joke, there’s probably oppressive thoughts in place (conscious or not) that led you to think the joke was appropriate. Everyone has to unlearn the oppressive things they’ve absorbed from an oppressive society. We are all taught ways to keep marginalized people in their place, but the good thing is that we can identify these things in ourselves and change. And then we can start working on dismantling the kyriarchy, yeah!
Ugh, this is a mix of good, well-meaning but ineffective in practice, and outright bad. It's good overall, but jeez, it could be so much better.

Infinity Biscuit
Battering Ram of Love
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1666 Post by Infinity Biscuit »

What is actually bad in there?
Image

User avatar
Bakustra
Religious Fifth Columnist Who Hates Science, Especially Evolution
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:32 pm
Location: Wherever I go, there are nothing but punks like you.

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1667 Post by Bakustra »

Infinity Biscuit wrote:What is actually bad in there?
2 and 4 basically contradict each other, which is the only thing that's outright bad (in terms of effect, not of intention/ideology)

basically my problem is that it presumes that callouts are always right, which is probably the case for feminism, or race, or quiltbag stuff, but if somebody yells at you for shaming otherkin or erasing demisexuality, then they're not very likely to be right, and if this is intended as a general guide it should address stuff like that

and, you know, the guide uses way too much lingo for something aimed at general audiences but that's the single most universal problem with anything so no point getting mad about it. but now i want to try and write something aimed at a more general audience.

User avatar
Veef
Posts: 2065
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:52 am

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1668 Post by Veef »

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/d ... k-facebook

"Different ways men and women talk on Facebook"

FUCK
FUCKING
XBOX

Infinity Biscuit
Battering Ram of Love
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1669 Post by Infinity Biscuit »

If you've ever been used as an educational tool on life as an oppressed person, you'll understand how 2 and 4 don't contradict at all :L

If you want me to explain it (:L), 2 is saying don't demand an explanation or a learning experience because the oppressed don't exist to do the work of educating for you, 4 is saying as a side point that people sometimes use the callout as a way to force a learning experience of their choice on their terms. Offering vs demanding puts it very differently.

Also the guide runs on a base assumption that the person being called out at least recognises that there is an oppression in place at all, so your second issue doesn't seem too much of a problem?

As for the third, well, lingo is always going to be an issue. There's a fight between the uselessness of reducing everything to 101 levels and the risk of alienating people who can't follow at all what you're saying without going elsewhere to learn a bunch of terminology first, so in every case you have to figure out what works in context. For my blog, I reblog so much social justice stuff on different levels that I figure anyone who's been following along should be able to continue to do so. But obviously my viewpoint isn't a great one since I can't view my own blog as an outsider!

Though it probably does raise issues for people who don't read my stuff except the excerpts that end up here
Image

User avatar
Jung
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:53 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1670 Post by Jung »

My big issue with SJ self-critique culture is sometimes it reminds me quite a bit of hermetic and fundamentalist Christianity:

The world is evil and living in it is corrupting. A normal life is inherently morally compromised. Becoming good means rejecting the mainstream culture: its ideas, its vocabulary, its entertainment, its ways of being men and women, its ways of relating to others, its ways of having sex. The virtuous person is alienated from and disaproving of the sinful culture that surrounds them.

I have the same problem with that as I have with Christianity: it strikes me as something that could turn emotionally toxic very easily.

Infinity Biscuit
Battering Ram of Love
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1671 Post by Infinity Biscuit »

Have you taken a look at the mainstream culture recently :L
Image

Infinity Biscuit
Battering Ram of Love
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1672 Post by Infinity Biscuit »

But seriously mainstream culture treats me like garbage and literally puts my wellbeing and even life in danger constantly. Is there a specific reason I shouldn't advocate for its overhaul when people like myself and people significantly worse off than myself are in this situation?

It's not the world that's evil; it's our culture, and that's a big distinction. You can't change the world but culture? That's mutable.
Image

User avatar
Bakustra
Religious Fifth Columnist Who Hates Science, Especially Evolution
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:32 pm
Location: Wherever I go, there are nothing but punks like you.

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1673 Post by Bakustra »

Infinity Biscuit wrote:If you've ever been used as an educational tool on life as an oppressed person, you'll understand how 2 and 4 don't contradict at all :L

If you want me to explain it (:L), 2 is saying don't demand an explanation or a learning experience because the oppressed don't exist to do the work of educating for you, 4 is saying as a side point that people sometimes use the callout as a way to force a learning experience of their choice on their terms. Offering vs demanding puts it very differently.

Also the guide runs on a base assumption that the person being called out at least recognises that there is an oppression in place at all, so your second issue doesn't seem too much of a problem?

As for the third, well, lingo is always going to be an issue. There's a fight between the uselessness of reducing everything to 101 levels and the risk of alienating people who can't follow at all what you're saying without going elsewhere to learn a bunch of terminology first, so in every case you have to figure out what works in context. For my blog, I reblog so much social justice stuff on different levels that I figure anyone who's been following along should be able to continue to do so. But obviously my viewpoint isn't a great one since I can't view my own blog as an outsider!

Though it probably does raise issues for people who don't read my stuff except the excerpts that end up here
For a general audience, though, it sure looks like "This is to educate you, but I won't explain anything", which presents itself as condescending without being meant that way, unless perhaps you add in a picture of Yoda. Like, if this is meant for people already in the SJ sphere (which kinda seems to be the case), then all my problems with it disappear- these are entirely issues of general audience perceptions and misperceptions.
Jung wrote:My big issue with SJ self-critique culture is sometimes it reminds me quite a bit of hermetic and fundamentalist Christianity:

The world is evil and living in it is corrupting. A normal life is inherently morally compromised. Becoming good means rejecting the mainstream culture: its ideas, its vocabulary, its entertainment, its ways of being men and women, its ways of relating to others, its ways of having sex. The virtuous person is alienated from and disaproving of the sinful culture that surrounds them.

I have the same problem with that as I have with Christianity: it strikes me as something that could turn emotionally toxic very easily.
If SJ culture rejected mainstream culture more then there would actually be fewer problems with it, because at least people wouldn't be explaining how they're asexual but want to fuck Benedict Cumberbatch. :v

If anything, the broader issue is that too many people in SJ circles tend to think of culture as something to be passively absorbed rather than actively created. (Of course, "too many" in this case means "I have come across this belief by accident more than two or three times", not "this is necessarily a prevalent belief").

User avatar
Civil War Man
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:36 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1674 Post by Civil War Man »

On the topic of mixed messages and rejecting the mainstream, one thing that can get confusing is how, when a minority culture goes unacknowledged or lies strictly outside the mainstream, it is being marginalized. But when aspects of that culture begin to enter the mainstream, it's frequently attacked as the majority attempting to co-opt the minority culture.

So the target we are attempting to hit is one where these cultures are acknowledged as being something that is not abnormal while simultaneously recognizing them as something wholly distinct from the mainstream. It leaves an incredibly tiny window with absolutely zero tolerance for error.

User avatar
Jung
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:53 pm

Re: Testing Chat V: The Final Mysterious Island: Miami Beach

#1675 Post by Jung »

Infinity Biscuit wrote:But seriously mainstream culture treats me like garbage and literally puts my wellbeing and even life in danger constantly. Is there a specific reason I shouldn't advocate for its overhaul when people like myself and people significantly worse off than myself are in this situation?
Well, I don't think it's my place to tell you how you should deal with your problems.

But it seems like the kind of mindset that could really easily lead to feeling alone and alienated in an evil world, and seeing most other people as at best less enlightened than you and at worst cruel and perverse barbarians who live in evil and misery.

And that doesn't strike me as something terribly good for a person's emotional health.
Civil War Man wrote:On the topic of mixed messages and rejecting the mainstream, one thing that can get confusing is how, when a minority culture goes unacknowledged or lies strictly outside the mainstream, it is being marginalized. But when aspects of that culture begin to enter the mainstream, it's frequently attacked as the majority attempting to co-opt the minority culture.

So the target we are attempting to hit is one where these cultures are acknowledged as being something that is not abnormal while simultaneously recognizing them as something wholly distinct from the mainstream. It leaves an incredibly tiny window with absolutely zero tolerance for error.
There's something about that mindset that I can't put my finger on that makes me really uncomfortable.

I think it's related to a similar unease I feel about the concept of sexual orientation, especially the way it seems to fashionable to turn every possible permutation of sexuality into a sexual orientation (bisexual heteroromantic! queerplatonic!).

I suppose the best way I can put it is filing cabinet thinking. Real human society is a gloriously messy mix, but the modern mind doesn't like that, it likes consistent easily interpreted systems where everything is neatly divided and classified and in its box. So where real human sexuality is an incredibly complex soup of desires and motives it likes to divide humanity into this biomedicalized filing cabinet system of sexual orientation where there's a box for everyone and everyone is in a box. And cultures similarly get treated as boxes with hard boundaries that are to be defined and policed. In the real world of course cultures incorporate stuff from other cultures all the time and reinterpret it and integrate it and produce all kinds of mixes and hybrids, but the filing cabinet mindset doesn't really like that vital messiness.

Of course, this originally started out as systems of control (and in the case of the "cultural appropriation" thing still seems to be one, just with the terms flipped - protecting the intellectual property of the less powerful boxes from being pirated by the more powerful ones, instead of protecting "civilization" from debasement by the inferior barbarism of foreigners and subjects). Sexual orientation is derived from a classification system for disease. Cultural exclusivity is derived from the desire to define one's own culture in opposition to others and police its boundaries against foreign ideas and promote your own culture at the expense of the foreign which is defined as inferior. Liberal versions of the same ideas dispense with this aspect of the scheme, regarding what originally was the privilidged standard as simply one box among many, but retain the basic structure originally inspired by the desire to define and police.

And this thought system is, like nationalism, both divisive and homogenizing at the same time. Because the integrity of the boxes requires at once eliminating or ignoring inconvenient continuities between the boxes and eliminating or ignoring inconvenient differences within them.

Locked