TFA spoilers und summary

[Bounty]

KYLO REN IS BEN SOLO

LUKE LIVES

REY BECOMES A JEDI

HAN DIES

[adr]

I don't understand what any of this means, except the last one, that makes sense out of context.

Quality spoilers need to actually tell things!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Bounty]

Decades have passed since ROTJ. Luke tried to train a new generation of Jedi but one of them fell to the Dark Side and Luke disappeared. Leia has a theory he went to the first Jedi temple but nobody knows where it is. Meanwhile, the remains of the Empire have been taken over by a Dark Side user called Snoke and turned into the First Order. They want to overthrow the Republic but are harassed by the Resistance led by Leia.

A Resistance pilot called Poe goes to a desert plannet called Jabbu to retreive a piece of the map to the Jedi temple. He's ambushed and captured but can send his droid BB-8 out into the desert with the map. During the attack a Stromtrooper gets shellshock and decides he doesn't want to be a bad guy, so after Poe gets interrogated by Snoke's apprentice Kylo Ren, he rescues him and the two of them steal a TIE. Poe calls the Stormtrooper Finn after the first two letters of his serial number and they nearly get away before crashing back onto Jabbu. Finn survives but he only finds Poe's jacket in the wreck of the TIE.

BB-8 gets adopted by Rey, a scavenger who picks over the Civil War battlefield on the planet, and who's waiting for her family to come pick here up after they abandoned her as a child. She meets Finn when BB-8 recognises Poe's jacket and Finn claims to be a Resistance member. They get attacked by First Order troops and end up escaping in a junky freighter - the Millennium Falcon. After a narrow escape the Falcon breaks down and while Rey tries to fix it it gets swallowed up by a bigger ship.

The bigger ship belongs to Han and Chewie who are back to smuggling and have been looking for the stolen Falcon. After Han's creditors catch up to him he takes Finn, Chewie, Rey and BB-8 with him on the Falcon to a bar where they can contact Leia.

At the bar, agents of both the FO and the Resistance report that BB-8 has arrived, Finn decides to run away to the Outer Rim and Rey is drawn to a box in the basement containing an old light saber. As she touches it it shows her visions of a rainy battlefield and her parents abandoning her. The bar owner, on old friend of Han, tells her the saber belonged to Luke and Vader and now belongs to her, but she refuses to touch it again and runs off into the woods, where she sees First Order ships landing.

The bar gets blasted to pieces by First Order troops but Resistance X-Wings arrive and a battle breaks out. Finn returns and is given the lightsaber for safe keeping. Kylo Ren captures Rey in the forest and takes her to his base to extract her memory of the map, which BB-8 showed her earlier. After the battle Leia arrives with C-3PO and Poe, who survived the crash but left the wreck before Finn searched it. Leia and Han have a talk about their son, who fell to the Dark Side after Luke tried to train him and now goes by the name Kylo Ren. Han couldn't cope with the loss so he ran off back to a life of smuggling.

Back at the Resistance base Finn says he worked at the base where Rey is held. It's called Starkiller Base - a planet fitted with a hyperdrive and a lightspeed laser that is powered by first sucking dry a sun and storing the energy. The base's weak spot is a structure regulating the power. Han, Chewie and Finn take the Falcon to sneak onto the base, drop the shields and rescue Rey while Poe will attack from above with his squadron.

On the base, Kylo Ren shows his face to Rey and tries to mindrape her, but in a bitchin' cool scene she reverse-mindrapes him and tells him his greatest fear is that he will never be as powerful as Vader. He storms off and she uses a jedi mind trick to escape her cell.

Han, Chewie and Finn arrive and drop the shields. They find Rey but the Resistance assault is going poorly so Chewie and Han go and set demolition charges inside the base. Han spots Kylo Ren and addresses him as 'Ben'. Just as it looks like Han is getting through to him, Ren runs him through with his lightsaber.

Chewie blows the charges, creating a hole Poe can fly through to attack the structure from the inside. On the way back to the Falcon, Kylo Ren attacks Finn and Rey. Finn gets his butt handed back to him but Rey picks up the light saber and holds her own. Ren offers to train her but she just mutilates him, grabs Finn and escapes with Chewie on the Falcon. The First Order evacuates the base and brings Ren back to Snoke to 'complete his training' before the base implodes.

Back at resistance HQ, R2-D2 powers back up after spending years searching his backups and reveals he has found the rest of the map. Chewie and Rey take the Falcon to the Jedi temple where Rey finds Luke and offers him the lightsaber.

Roll credits.

[adr]

Huh, it sounds better than i expected. So, there's actually some depth to the story after all.

[Stofsk]

A few things niggled me.

-I feel like the plot should have revolved around the Search for Spock Luke, rather than faffing about on Starkiller Base.

-Starkiller base is the third time the movies have retreaded a DOOM LAZOR plot. Seriously if episode 9 is about blowing up a half completed EVEN BETTERER STARKILLER BASE i don't even

-The assault on Starkiller base was pretty cool, but I kinda wanted more rebel fighters and TIE variation.

-Similarly, the new ISD was cool, but I wanted to see a new MonCal hot dog ship. Or the New Republic equivalent.

-JJ Abrams needs to learn to astronomy because unless every planet the Starkiller death ray hit was in the same system there shouldn't be a observable explosion from different planets in the galaxy. I mean at least put it on a viewscreen and have like CNN broadcast it or something.

-FOR FUCK'S SAKE LUKE SAY SOMETHING BEFORE THE END CREDITS ROLL- ah shit

~

That's the stuff I can think of off the top of my head. Only a few of those things truly annoyed me (I really wanted Luke to say something and that ending felt more awkward pause than satisfying). And it's a credit to the film that a lot of those 'problems' didn't really impact my enjoyment of it.

[Bounty]

The biggest complaint I've seen and one that I can agree with is that it's A New Hope 2.0. It's so blatant that it had to have been deliberate.

I feel like the plot should have revolved around the Search for Spock Luke, rather than faffing about on Starkiller Base.

That I didn't mind at all. Luke is a MacGuffin, the movie is about Rey first and foremost.

[RogueIce]

-FOR FUCK'S SAKE LUKE SAY SOMETHING BEFORE THE END CREDITS ROLL- ah shit

So I'm really into Star Citizen, and I was watching a streamer playing the game last night. Someone asked about the Squadron 42 single-player game so he showed some YouTube videos, including this one:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSXcdvd-ME

My response: "More lines than he got in Episode VII."

[evilsoup]

well that was a load of shit

[Dooey Jo]

it was sad to hear that the message of the original trilogy was mistaken, and the people are actually helpless and lost without their supermen to save them from this

[Ralin]

it was sad to hear that the message of the original trilogy was mistaken, and the people are actually helpless and lost without their supermen to save them from this

What?

[Dooey Jo]

i think the opening crawl literally said "lol at those bumbling politicians who can only decide to appease the NEW HITLERS. the only hope is for general leia to find LUKE SKYWALKER so that he can create more superheroes to counter the increasing threat of the NAZIWIZARDS" it was really weird

though if we view the ending montage in return of the jedi as propaganda it is an interesting commentary on what can happen when a small group tries to impose democracy on an ingrained dictatorship. pretty cynical though imo

[joviwan]

I think the larger part of that 'what' is what gives you the impression from the OT that supports your thesis in the first place.

[Ralin]

They weren't appeasing the First Order. The Resistance was led by a former New Republic politician and is implied to have had at least their behind the scenes support. There were probably a lot of reasons why they wanted to bring Luke back into the fold, including "Leia misses her fucking brother and wants to talk to him."

But yes, if the enemy has evil wizards then trying to find your hero wizard twin brother to help fight them is probably a good mood.

[joviwan]

Episode 7 has a lot of really deliberate parallels to post-WW1 germany when you read into the movie or read any of the fluff that goes with it. I mean... The empire is almost literally the german empire in 1918. They're defeated, disarmed, dismantled, punished, then shoved into a box where they aren't allowed to play with anyone. Everyone ignores them and thus begins a new era of peace. The republic disarms its own military because obviously there wont be a war again and all the systems can totally manage themselves, it's fine guys. Meanwhile, Germany--er, the first order--bides its time, suffers severe economic and sociological issues, before organizing itself under a charismatic ruler and their newly instated central government, quietly builds an enormous arsenal of military personel and equipment. Border skirmishes erupt, and the republic creates a truce with them, in an almost literal "peace in our time" nonsense maneuver, which the first order pretends to adhere to, eventually followed by General Hux going Full Actual Hitler and invading poland--I mean, blowing up the current senate.

[Ralin]

I thought the First Order and the Empire were separate entities.

A friend of mine who has been following the new EU backed that up, and said the Empire was mostly Deep Core at this point and the First Order was in the Rim.

[joviwan]

...Huh. Wookiepedia confirms your friend, more or less, though the actual ultimate state of the empire is left a little bit in the air. I guess I wasn't 100% accurate.

Following losses on and over Jakku, the Empire did not attempt to instigate any major offensives with the New Republic. With severe depletion setting in, the Empire would eventually be forced to sign the Galactic Concordance, effectively surrendering to the New Republic after negotiations on Coruscant. Treaty stipulations would see the building and mobilization of stormtrooper forces forbidden, heavy war reparations and other harsh concessions that would limit the Empire's ability to wage war and sustain its armada. The treaty would also force all Imperial vessels located in the Core and Inner Rim to be confined within pre-defined boundaries, locking the Empire into an endless cold war with the New Republic and seeing its eventual transformation into a rump state, with political hardliners dominating its internal affairs. With the Empire facing severe internal unrest, several prominent members of the Galactic Senate came to believe that the war with the Empire was nearing its end and that the Empire's surrender was imminent.[6]

Concurrently, large numbers of Imperial warships began retreating into the galaxy's Unknown Regions seeking to escape the prying eyes of the New Republic and its bans on the sale of military armaments to the Empire. There in the galactic west, the scattered Imperial elements had re-united under a common cause as the factionalism that had previously scarred the Empire had been swept away. While smaller, remnants of the Imperial Starfleet had gathered in the Queluhan Nebula a month after Jakku owning to its ability to hide their ships from enemy scanners. With weapons upgrades to its TIE/LN starfighters and over ten Star Destroyers and countless light cruisers, the Galactic Empire would formulate its eventual plan to strike out at an unsuspecting galaxy.[27][6]

With the Empire's collapse, many of the Emperor's servants fled into the Unknown Regions with some of the regime's greatest secrets. There for nearly three decades after Endor, the Empire's first true successor state would coalesce as the mysterious First Order. Situated in the galaxy's vast frontier, the First Order would undergo the rapid expansion and colonization of newly discovered star systems, while new bases, shipyards, and weapons labs would begin churning out a technologically advanced military in a bid to conquer the galaxy. Inspired by the previous Galactic Empire and composed of various military leaders of the former regime, the First Order fought for control of the galaxy against the Resistance, a private military force led by General Leia Organa and funded by like-minded senators in the New Republic who believed the Order posed a greater threat than many believed.[6]

[Ralin]

Thought so. Even the opening crawl straight up says they're separate entities, though "Arose from the ashes of the Empire" could be taken more than one way (I'd actually assumed they emerged and took over most of the Empire from the inside).

Anyway, I'm not seeing anything in the movies implying the New Republic was especially stupid in signing an armistice with the Empire? The war would have to end at some point, and the Republic wouldn't have a good reason to go all Unconditional Surrender or Nothing. I expect the Resistance came about over an internal schism in the New Republic over how seriously to take the First Order. The non-Resistance friendly faction probably didn't realize the full scope of the First Order's military resources (it's a big galaxy, you can hide a lot) and let's face it: the First Order doesn't really give the impression of being a highly competent group of people. Their theme as an organization pretty much boils down to "Don't look at my penis" (Kylo Ren, Hux's rant about his super awesome better than clones trained from birth stormtroopers, Supreme Leader Snoke's need to make his holopresence look REALLY BIG AND IMPOSING, etc).

The Starkiller attack clearly came as a huge shock, but I think this is less a case of "Leia was obviously right" and more "Leia was right about a threat people could legit disagree about."

On that note, about a month before it came out a guy I know made a comment about how he'd forgive a lot of the triple lightsaber crap and such if it turned out that Kylo Ren really was an angsty kid trying too hard to look tough and edgy. So...yeah.

[Dooey Jo]

i think taken on its own, what happens is a closer allegory for america in the beginning of ww2. They sit around debating whether to do something while the hitlers take over hundreds of systems no one cares about, then they fleet get all blowed up

Since the empire was also america (but apparently not everyone got that ), as was the republic, it makes some thematic sense, though who knows if the writers intended this.

But a big message in the OT was that people don't need superior technology or big and strong wizards to win, as long as they trust in the strength of their convictions. But now it's like "actually we do need that because what if "
Puts a tragic spin on all the people cheering on all those planets. "Freedom? Enjoy your new bureaucracy and more war "

[Ralin]

I have no idea how you got that message from the original trilogy. The first movie ended with the Death Star technological terror being destroyed by a newbie wizard with some magic help from beyond the grave. The second one...ended with the heroes fleeing to lick their wounds. The third one ended with an ace fighter pilot and a general in his heavily armed smuggler ship blowing up the second Death Star while two Force wizards fought each other and then one of them turned on the Emperor.

So uh...yeah, not seeing this big message about the power of ordinary people or whatever. Or anything about Leia wanting to find her brother the Force wizard to help deal with the evil wizard who corrupted her son that contradicts that.

[RogueIce]

Episode 7 has a lot of really deliberate parallels to post-WW1 germany when you read into the movie or read any of the fluff that goes with it.

Yeah. I mean, they weren't even trying to be subtle with it.

It's like they took the "Empire = Space Nazis" from the OT and turned that shit up to 11.

[Dooey Jo]

I have no idea how you got that message from the original trilogy. The first movie ended with the Death Star technological terror being destroyed by a newbie wizard with some magic help from beyond the grave. The second one...ended with the heroes fleeing to lick their wounds. The third one ended with an ace fighter pilot and a general in his heavily armed smuggler ship blowing up the second Death Star while two Force wizards fought each other and then one of them turned on the Emperor.

Well yes, those are sort of the historical facts of how those things happened in the films. The Death Stars are of course destroyed by technology and wizards, but I mean more in the way it's presented. The Empire as this big, efficient machine of sleek ships and faceless soldiers; why even their logo is a literal cogwheel. While the rebels are all individuals, humans (and aliens) flying around in these shambling messes of exposed parts and grease. Visually, if nothing else, the rebels are definitely portrayed as technologically inferior but organic. But in the end, it's Luke's decision to ignore the targeting machine and trust in his own abilities that leads to victory; in the story it may be his abilities as a wizard, but the message is clear I think.
Similarly in Jedi we have bears defeat this machine by literally throwing sticks and stones at it, and Luke, who finally wins over the Emperor by throwing away his weapon, rejecting the cycle of violence altogether. If you notice, directly after Luke does this, we see the shield generator blow, and the rebels can finally do their thing; the Empire doesn't stand a chance after this point, they're hosed. It's not connected causally of course, but it's a theme, you know what I mean?

So uh...yeah, not seeing this big message about the power of ordinary people or whatever. Or anything about Leia wanting to find her brother the Force wizard to help deal with the evil wizard who corrupted her son that contradicts that.

Not Leia's personal reasons of course, but I really got the impression that the film wanted to say that having a bunch of Jedi around is crucial for a safe and secure society. In the OT they eventually did have a Jedi, but I don't think we should walk away with the message that the reason they won is that they had a bigger wizard.

[joviwan]

I don't think anything you said actually supports your thesis.

That said, I can sort of see how someone might get there, at least in terms of "what happens in return of the jedi."

Very basically: the space wizards have literally no effect on the outcome on the grand battle.

Luke chases some dudes on a speeder and diplomacies with the ewoks, then promptly lets himself get captured by vader.

The three space wizards then spend the rest of the film resolving their private interpersonal conflict which has no bearing on the success of the battle between the two militaries.

And this is after two and a half movies worth of time is spent talking about how Luke, the last jedi, is the sole hope of saving the galaxy from evil.

But that's the only thing I can think of which supports your position. LIke, I don't know how you can suggest that "trusting his own abilities" is *anything* other than what is actually presented on screen. "Don't use your technology, Luke, we've already seen it fail. Use your (sudden) faith in mystical space wizard powers."

[Ralin]

Yeah, I think you're really reading way too much into it.

Very basically: the space wizards have literally no effect on the outcome on the grand battle.

No man, Palpatine was totally using Jedi/Sith Battle Meditation to guide the Imperials the entire time. They're useless without it.

That was one of Zahn's ideas I never liked much.

[joviwan]

I basically read none of the EU.

[adr]

Luke could read and interpret the Bible Force himself, without the priests Jedi council telling him what it really said. In a sense, he is the common man relying on his own faith, even if it is extraordinary among the common folks, rather than the chosen elite relying on his organized church authority.

Like kinda like exceptional individuals can make a difference and they can also come from anywhere, even a farm boy in the middle of nowhere.